jwcat
Well-known
I just finished a Maine Media workshop on Wet Plate and the instructor suggested using such a camera for starters. There are some interesting cameras on eBay, but I trust people here and would like your input on a camera for this use. 4x5 is the smallest I would care to go right now.
Thanks in advance,
John
Thanks in advance,
John
Austerby
Well-known
The usual choice for a LF field camera starts with a Speed Graphic or Crown Graphic as there's lots around.
There are some good bargains to be had for studio LF cameras: in many ways I'm not sure the make of camera matters that much as they're just about movements and build quality and weight. Likewise with lenses - even old, slow LF lenses are very capable for all sorts of photography, providing their shutters are working ok.
You may well find older, even vintage wooden cameras in old format sizes - half plate etc - could meet your needs very well.
Just make sure the film backs are light-tight, that the tripod is steady and off you go.
There are some good bargains to be had for studio LF cameras: in many ways I'm not sure the make of camera matters that much as they're just about movements and build quality and weight. Likewise with lenses - even old, slow LF lenses are very capable for all sorts of photography, providing their shutters are working ok.
You may well find older, even vintage wooden cameras in old format sizes - half plate etc - could meet your needs very well.
Just make sure the film backs are light-tight, that the tripod is steady and off you go.
Vince Lupo
Whatever
Are you looking for a view/field 4"x5" that has all the movements etc? Or are you just looking to strictly shoot a larger piece of film? If that's all you're after, why not start REALLY cheap: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...OEgnV9ZhOEHdQbBoC4crw_wcB&Q=&is=REG&A=details
Not completely up on this particular pinhole, but might that work for wet plate? Or are the cameras you're looking for strictly dedicated wet-plate cameras?
If you're looking for a 'real' 4"x5" camera, make sure all the knobs tighten things well. The most frustrating thing would be a large format camera that doesn't tighten down, and even inserting the film holder causes a shift in things.
In addition to light-tight backs, make sure there aren't any pinholes in the bellows.
Not completely up on this particular pinhole, but might that work for wet plate? Or are the cameras you're looking for strictly dedicated wet-plate cameras?
If you're looking for a 'real' 4"x5" camera, make sure all the knobs tighten things well. The most frustrating thing would be a large format camera that doesn't tighten down, and even inserting the film holder causes a shift in things.
In addition to light-tight backs, make sure there aren't any pinholes in the bellows.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Graflex cameras on e-bay are kind of confusing, make sure you are getting 4x5.
I had one in 2014, Aniversary model, CLA'ed it to be fully functional, used it and sold.
Settled with cheap and heavy, but well build Calumet View 4x5 camera for now. I like to have both stardarts moving. I don't think anything else comes close in the price for issues free and "modern" 4x5 camera.
I had one in 2014, Aniversary model, CLA'ed it to be fully functional, used it and sold.
Settled with cheap and heavy, but well build Calumet View 4x5 camera for now. I like to have both stardarts moving. I don't think anything else comes close in the price for issues free and "modern" 4x5 camera.
Vince Lupo
Whatever
x-ray
Veteran
I shoot a lot of collodion and would suggest a wooden camer. I say wood because the silver nitrate sensitized that drips from the holder is very corrosive and will destroy metal. It's hard on wood too but wood holds up better. You really won't use movements much if ever. I can tell you from experience that you'll eventually want to shoot vintage lenses so think ahead. Petzval lenses are fast, large and heavy relative to other lenses of the period. Rapid Rectinesrs are slower and smaller but less popular among wet plate shooters. I suggest something in wood with a large lens board like a B&J Rembrandt or view camer or Ansco/Agfa camera. Don't worry about movements. Just make certIn it has a standard back and good blellows.
You should be able to pick one up fairly reasonable.
Have fun and be safe. Wear appropriate clothes and eye protection.
You should be able to pick one up fairly reasonable.
Have fun and be safe. Wear appropriate clothes and eye protection.
BillBingham2
Registered User
While it doesn't move as far as a pure view camera, a Crown Graphic is a find place to start. Speed Graphics have a focal plane shutter, something else to break (IMHO).
There are some you make-em wooden view cameras out there that might be a great point with wet plates. Never had the time, money or guts. Keep us in the loop as to how you make out.
B2
There are some you make-em wooden view cameras out there that might be a great point with wet plates. Never had the time, money or guts. Keep us in the loop as to how you make out.
B2
x-ray
Veteran
The silver nitrate will destroy the metal very quickly. Silver nitrate is silver dissolved in nitric acid essentially.
Dwig
Well-known
... and you also need to distinguish between the Graflex cameras (SLRs) and the Graphic cameras (RF, aka "Press"). The Graflex company (whether Folmer & Schwing, a division of EKC, or Graphlex Inc) made both along with true view cameras during its later years.
rfaspen
[insert pithy phrase here]
I don't do wet plate, but have watched/participated a couple times. Messy. I did notice that only wood cameras were involved. I also know that nitric acid will quickly do a number on many metals, so......I think the advice suggesting a wood camera is good advice.
Wood LF cameras seem expensive in my part of the world. Primarily because of the "antique" value attached to them. Thus, they are severely overpriced.
Wood LF cameras seem expensive in my part of the world. Primarily because of the "antique" value attached to them. Thus, they are severely overpriced.
jwcat
Well-known
Thanks for all the answers and I will respond when I get up to speed.
John
John
Vince Lupo
Whatever
So would something like a wood 4"x5" pinhole camera be a possibility?
rogue_designer
Reciprocity Failure
I used to have a Rajah (deardorff clone) 5x7 - there are lots of wooden 5x7's hiding out there... like this B&L
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Bau...581?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c50e9bfe5
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Bau...581?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c50e9bfe5
Corran
Well-known
Pinhole and wet plate don't mix.
Typical exposure at full f/5.6 aperture is still quite slow, possibly even measured in seconds. So pinhole and tiny apertures are going to cause exposures of 10-20 minutes, which the plate won't even stay workable for.
So don't do this.
As already mentioned in the first response, a Speed/Crown Graphic and standard lens is a good starting point for almost anything, and can be had for under $300.
Vince Lupo
Whatever
Got it. Thanks for the advice and knowledge.
x-ray
Veteran
With collodion depending on the ether / ethanol mix and the humidity in the place you're shooting you only have about 5 minutes that the collodion stays wet. If it dries out it won't work.
For that reason you need a fast lens and particularly if you're working with people. The effective ISO is extremely slow. On full plate I use a Darlot 13"*f4 Petzval and have an enormous amount of light from fluorescent banks. I can't tell you how urn light but it will almost blind you. With the collodion I mix and a fresh batch a portrait will take about 15-30 seconds. Now imagine the time with a pinhole at f128 or slower. In full sun it would run into the minutes.
Different collodion mixtures have different speeds. There are tradeoffs for speed. I mix my own formula which has the contrast and speed that works for me. Also as collodion ages it gets more contrasty and slower. One feel make a huge difference in speed.
Here's a suggestion to get started. Consider the camera a throw away after you use it for a while. Pick up an old autographic Kodak folder or something like that. I have one that I shoot once in a while with wet plate. Get one with a decent lens that is at least f8. Buy black metal plates from Bostic and Sullivan and a Collodion kit. Cut the plates to fit in the back of the camera. Use open 4x5 or 5x7 trays in your darkroom to sensitize, rinse and fix the plates. That's really all you need to get started. I've even seen people use an old Kodak Brownie box camera and a Holga. One company even cuts plates for the Holga.
Start small and simple and have fun.
Let me say the process is very dangerous even at the it's best. Ether is extremely flammable and the metals in collodion, Cadmium especially, are quite dangerous. If you become proficient in this and understand the dangers and take precautions you might substitute potassium cyanide for rapid fix to fix the plates. I use potassium cyanide but I majored in chemistry and understand how to handle it and how to neutralize and dispose of it. One mistake with KCN is certain death. I would recommend using rapid fix for most people.
When you get really good at collodion then advance into faster vintage lenses and cameras. Until then keep it simple.
Great user cameras and lenses are Rembrandt style portrait cameras, simple view cameras like the B&J wooden cameras, Agfa and Ansco. I use a 5x7 Deardorff and 8x10 Deardorff for my work. Lenses that are excellent for wet plate and cheap are barrel mounted Tessar type lenses. They're dirt cheap and some are fast. an f4.5 Tessar like a 150, 165 or 210 are perfect. I purchased a very nice 12" tessar f4.5 in a barrel for just under $100. I purchased a very early Goerz double anastigmat in a non working shutter for under $100. Both make beautiful images. Projection Petzval lenses from a lantern slide projector work great and have great character.
Check the link at the bottom of this post and see some of my collodion.
http://www.x-rayarts.com/collodion.html
jwcat
Well-known
Thanks X-Ray,
That is a good amount of advice that I will take to heart. The danger involved is the reason I went to the workshop. I will add that seeing the plates online does not begin to show their beauty.
That is a good amount of advice that I will take to heart. The danger involved is the reason I went to the workshop. I will add that seeing the plates online does not begin to show their beauty.
goamules
Well-known
OK, you are getting a lot of strange answers here that are wrong. I have shot wetplate almost weekly for 8 years.
The wetplate silver bath is simply silver nitrate dissolved in water. It is not nitric acid, and is only slightly acidic on the PH scale, or practically neutral. A wooden or plastic or metal camera can last for decades doing wetplate (I have several that are over 130 years old). Silver nitrate doesn't usually get outside the holder, and doesn't "eat" cameras up, if you clean up after shooting. It will stain anything organic it touches, and does seem to oxidize metal if left on it for hours, but you shouldn't leave any drips soaking into your equipment anyway.
A 4x5 Graflex makes a decent camera. Get a crown, you won't need the focal plane shutter on a Speed. I used a Graflex for 2 years, exclusively for wetplate. You cannot get a 4x5 sized plate easily out of one, more like a quarterplate size.
Movements are one of the main reasons to shoot Large Format over 35mm. Saying "you won't use movements" is like saying "you won't use 4th or 5th gear in that car much." You should be using movements, but you don't have to. A Graflex has few movements.
Wetplate is no more inherently dangerous than starting a lawn mower, spraying bug spray on an anthill, or varnishing an old dresser. There are a lot of misconceptions there. No, don't drink your chemicals, and don't pour silver nitrate in your eyes. Don't smoke around solvents. Got it?
It's great you took a workshop! Welcome to a wonderful experience!
For the rest, the biggest mistake you can do is to try to learn wetplate by asking a series of questions to strangers on the internet. Read that again. The only way to learn it quickly and safely is to take a workshop, or buy a manual from someone like Quinn Jacobson, John Coffer, or others. Learn from an expert, not a bunch of Internet rumors from people that you don't know. It's a complex craft, and like glass blowing or learning to fly an ultralight aircraft, you want to get some bona fide training. You will hear 5 different answers to each question on Facebook, but on the Collodion.com website (which I moderate) you'll get better answers.
The wetplate silver bath is simply silver nitrate dissolved in water. It is not nitric acid, and is only slightly acidic on the PH scale, or practically neutral. A wooden or plastic or metal camera can last for decades doing wetplate (I have several that are over 130 years old). Silver nitrate doesn't usually get outside the holder, and doesn't "eat" cameras up, if you clean up after shooting. It will stain anything organic it touches, and does seem to oxidize metal if left on it for hours, but you shouldn't leave any drips soaking into your equipment anyway.
A 4x5 Graflex makes a decent camera. Get a crown, you won't need the focal plane shutter on a Speed. I used a Graflex for 2 years, exclusively for wetplate. You cannot get a 4x5 sized plate easily out of one, more like a quarterplate size.
Movements are one of the main reasons to shoot Large Format over 35mm. Saying "you won't use movements" is like saying "you won't use 4th or 5th gear in that car much." You should be using movements, but you don't have to. A Graflex has few movements.
Wetplate is no more inherently dangerous than starting a lawn mower, spraying bug spray on an anthill, or varnishing an old dresser. There are a lot of misconceptions there. No, don't drink your chemicals, and don't pour silver nitrate in your eyes. Don't smoke around solvents. Got it?
It's great you took a workshop! Welcome to a wonderful experience!
For the rest, the biggest mistake you can do is to try to learn wetplate by asking a series of questions to strangers on the internet. Read that again. The only way to learn it quickly and safely is to take a workshop, or buy a manual from someone like Quinn Jacobson, John Coffer, or others. Learn from an expert, not a bunch of Internet rumors from people that you don't know. It's a complex craft, and like glass blowing or learning to fly an ultralight aircraft, you want to get some bona fide training. You will hear 5 different answers to each question on Facebook, but on the Collodion.com website (which I moderate) you'll get better answers.
rlouzan
Well-known
4x5" Tachihara
http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/tachihara.htm
http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/tachihara.htm
goamules
Well-known
Now to the camera advice. If you are on a budget, look for a wooden 5x7, like the Rembrant mentioned above, or a Kodak 2D, or similar. 4x5 is traditional from the 1850s, but that's awfully small for today's plates. Do you want to make tiny 1/6 up to 1/4 plates like you find in antique shops in the little gutta percha folding cases? That's the size you get with a 4x5. I'd go 5x7 at least.
The 8x10s are more versatile, but heavier and more expensive. For Plate Holders, buy or make one out of a Fidelity plastic film holder. There are instructions online. You can cut the septum of the holder to any size you want. But again, it's hard to get a 5x7 out of a 5x7 holder, probably more like a 4x5. There has to be some margin around the edge, for it to hold your glass or metal plate.
Look for any lens that is around F4.5 if you are going to shoot Portraits (need a fast exposure for moving targets), or just about any speed if you are doing landscapes or still lifes. You don't need a shutter, and don't worry if it's coated, though I'd look for an uncoated lens.
Here is one of my 8x10s, shooting at a workshop I gave. The plate size I chose to make is halfplate (4 1/4 X 5 1/2):
The 8x10s are more versatile, but heavier and more expensive. For Plate Holders, buy or make one out of a Fidelity plastic film holder. There are instructions online. You can cut the septum of the holder to any size you want. But again, it's hard to get a 5x7 out of a 5x7 holder, probably more like a 4x5. There has to be some margin around the edge, for it to hold your glass or metal plate.
Look for any lens that is around F4.5 if you are going to shoot Portraits (need a fast exposure for moving targets), or just about any speed if you are doing landscapes or still lifes. You don't need a shutter, and don't worry if it's coated, though I'd look for an uncoated lens.
Here is one of my 8x10s, shooting at a workshop I gave. The plate size I chose to make is halfplate (4 1/4 X 5 1/2):