DougFord
on the good foot
Oy Vey, too complicated.
Magic 8-ball sez, Learn to play the pan flute.
Magic 8-ball sez, Learn to play the pan flute.
sojournerphoto
Veteran
Difficult question, because ther are as many different ways of becoming a better photographer as there are people. I think you need to take pictures of things that interest you, and then when they don't make nice pictures work out why
I've used various tools, digital and analogue and, if I'm honest with myself, enjoy them all for what they are. I have pictures I value from them all, equally importantly.
So, one camera, lens, film will teach you something, but using digital point and shoot could also. I spent a while using a GX100 preset to 35mm equivalent. That meant that was my prime field of view, but when I changed it was for a reason (plus the step zoom helps for me).
At the moment I shoot primarily Zeiss Ikon with a 35 or 50 - but each gets used for a while rather than rapid swaps. Just my current way. I could equally well use a dslr with similar focal lengths, but I like carrying the Ikon and I'm enjoying shooting black and white film again.
What I do though is use something consistently and exclusively for a fairly long period before other tools are allowed back into the frame. This helps avoid co=nfusion, I was pleased recently when I made a photograph with a dslr that had to be shot on digital because I needed a very clean look - that point of separation had made it into my intention in firing the shutter, which felt like a step in the right direciton.
Ramblings, sorry. But use someting enough on tings that interest you to find out what you like. Also, don;t constrain your subject matter - if you like it it doesn't matter if it's not 'street'.
Mike
I've used various tools, digital and analogue and, if I'm honest with myself, enjoy them all for what they are. I have pictures I value from them all, equally importantly.So, one camera, lens, film will teach you something, but using digital point and shoot could also. I spent a while using a GX100 preset to 35mm equivalent. That meant that was my prime field of view, but when I changed it was for a reason (plus the step zoom helps for me).
At the moment I shoot primarily Zeiss Ikon with a 35 or 50 - but each gets used for a while rather than rapid swaps. Just my current way. I could equally well use a dslr with similar focal lengths, but I like carrying the Ikon and I'm enjoying shooting black and white film again.
What I do though is use something consistently and exclusively for a fairly long period before other tools are allowed back into the frame. This helps avoid co=nfusion, I was pleased recently when I made a photograph with a dslr that had to be shot on digital because I needed a very clean look - that point of separation had made it into my intention in firing the shutter, which felt like a step in the right direciton.
Ramblings, sorry. But use someting enough on tings that interest you to find out what you like. Also, don;t constrain your subject matter - if you like it it doesn't matter if it's not 'street'.
Mike
ola.b
Established
Whoa! lot´s of great input. Thank you ever so much. I´m glad I posted this here!
I´ve edited the quotes a bit, to avoid this becoming an enormous post. And if something you posted is edited out, it doesn´t mean I think it was not worthy advice, it just means I didn´t have a comment at this time.
Everything so far has been good advice and has helped me on my way..
..
Well, maybe except the pan flute thing
Thank you. That was pretty much a bullseye.
Thank you. Your first paragraph underlined what John said for me. The rest is just good advice I think..
I´ll take some time this weekend to think of a few smaller projects that I´d like to do, and get started on them. I´ve already started scribbling on a piece of paper.
Good point. I´ll glue my lx3 to my hands for a while until I figure out if it´ll work for me.
I really want a viewfinder. Composing with the screen doesn´t feel right for me.
I´ll surely look into finding someone to constantly critique my progress..
I´m a HE not a SHE.. Guess my Norwegian name tricked you or something.
Consistency is important, that is why I wanted to get rid of everything and "start over" and stick to one setup for a while.
My line of reasoning was somewhat built on that if I only had a few variables to play with; shutter speed, aperture and composition, it would help me focus on the content.
And having taken that chinese proverb to heart already, here are my "october 24th photographic resolutions":
-make a conscious effort to take interesting (to me) photographs every day
-never leave home without the lx-3
-critique my shots often, weekly perhaps?
-find someone else to critique my shots
-find 2-3-4 smaller projects and refine their theme. (already have some ideas here)
-do protraits of friends to get used to shooting people, and my friends used to me fiddling around with a camera constantly.
-get big prints of my top 3 shots each month.
still just rambling on my part, but this is helping..
thanks to everyone!
I´ve edited the quotes a bit, to avoid this becoming an enormous post. And if something you posted is edited out, it doesn´t mean I think it was not worthy advice, it just means I didn´t have a comment at this time.
Everything so far has been good advice and has helped me on my way..
..
Well, maybe except the pan flute thing
Thank you. That was pretty much a bullseye.
Thank you. Your first paragraph underlined what John said for me. The rest is just good advice I think..
I´ll take some time this weekend to think of a few smaller projects that I´d like to do, and get started on them. I´ve already started scribbling on a piece of paper.
Good point. I´ll glue my lx3 to my hands for a while until I figure out if it´ll work for me.
I really want a viewfinder. Composing with the screen doesn´t feel right for me.
I´ll surely look into finding someone to constantly critique my progress..
I´m a HE not a SHE.. Guess my Norwegian name tricked you or something.
Difficult question, because ther are as many different ways of becoming a better photographer as there are people. I think you need to take pictures of things that interest you, and then when they don't make nice pictures work out why
...
So, one camera, lens, film will teach you something, but using digital point and shoot could also. I spent a while using a GX100 preset to 35mm equivalent. That meant that was my prime field of view, but when I changed it was for a reason (plus the step zoom helps for me).
...
What I do though is use something consistently and exclusively for a fairly long period before other tools are allowed back into the frame. This helps avoid co=nfusion,
...
Consistency is important, that is why I wanted to get rid of everything and "start over" and stick to one setup for a while.
My line of reasoning was somewhat built on that if I only had a few variables to play with; shutter speed, aperture and composition, it would help me focus on the content.
And having taken that chinese proverb to heart already, here are my "october 24th photographic resolutions":
-make a conscious effort to take interesting (to me) photographs every day
-never leave home without the lx-3
-critique my shots often, weekly perhaps?
-find someone else to critique my shots
-find 2-3-4 smaller projects and refine their theme. (already have some ideas here)
-do protraits of friends to get used to shooting people, and my friends used to me fiddling around with a camera constantly.
-get big prints of my top 3 shots each month.
still just rambling on my part, but this is helping..
thanks to everyone!
nikon_sam
Shooter of Film...
Please allow me to add this statement...
If you truly desire to do anything and do it well it's going to take a lot of time and hard work on your part...If, what your doing is a life's passion then it won't seem like hard work...
I recall talking with a Brooks Institute student out shooting a class assignment...he was using a 4x5 view camera and he said..."Yea, we have to shoot with the 4x5..."
He had the wrong attitude...My feeling is, that I get to shoot with a 4x5 camera...
For me it's a passion, for him it was work...
If you truly desire to do anything and do it well it's going to take a lot of time and hard work on your part...If, what your doing is a life's passion then it won't seem like hard work...
I recall talking with a Brooks Institute student out shooting a class assignment...he was using a 4x5 view camera and he said..."Yea, we have to shoot with the 4x5..."
He had the wrong attitude...My feeling is, that I get to shoot with a 4x5 camera...
For me it's a passion, for him it was work...
monochromejrnl
Well-known
lots of good advice for all of us who aspire to improve our photography...
consider picking up Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell and search for '10,000 hour rule'.
consider picking up Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell and search for '10,000 hour rule'.
sojournerphoto
Veteran
, but it is focused on skills that require high degrees of proprioceptiev learning such as music.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Turtle
Veteran
there are lots of things you can do, but to begin with do keep things simple (a few lenses is fine) and shoot A LOT. Once you have more experience, you can force your weak areas. For me it is/was the 50mm FL. I shoot everything around it, but not 50mm (much). I recently took forced myself to work with the 50mm and the result, after a sense of 'not being at one with the camera' were some of teh best images I have shot in 12 months. Its about going with what you know most of the time but then constantly pushing to open up your vision and the way you use your tools. As Roger says, lose the passion and you might as well give up, hence my going to play with my 50mm when I felt I had worked my comfort zone to death. The result was new ground.
jbf
||||||
Do you think a "one year, with one lense and b/w film"-project will help me become a better photographer?
The hope is that a smaller camera will get picked up a lot more often than a dslr, and the fact that it´s a majestical Leica plus the fact that I´m doing a clearly defined project will help me pick it up with me more often.
Am I kidding myself?
What have you done to make yourself a better photographer?
hopefully I´m not making a fool of myself now..... hehe..
Obviously there are costs to be considered. But seriously. using one lens, one camera for a year is definitely a way to learn how to use your camera and make it work.
Personally, if you give me any camera and tell me to do a project with it. I will just take the camera and use it. It doesnt matter to me. Not a single bit. If the story or project idea is compelling, thats enough. Give me a ****ty camera and I will find a way to make it work. It may have its quirks and strangess to the imagery, but there will be a reason for it, and you either make it work for you, or you dont.
I say just buy something inexpensive that works and force yourself to use it.
monochromejrnl
Well-known
although the 10,000 hour rule is often applied to music, athletics etc... in his book, Gladwell applies it to the study/practice of law, computer programming and other skills...
silverbullet
Well-known
Hi ola,
what a fruitful thread about our passion and frustration on the other side of the coin.....
What you described happened to me around 1992.
Buying a used guitar with 12 strings, knowing 3 chords gave me the kick to play like Peter,Paul and Mary.... and others......
I tried very hard, had a teacher and jumped from one guitar to another, always thinking: "The next one will help me to become a guitar player.
After folksongs I tried the blues and very soon I got him.....
Electric guitars went over the desk, from Fender, Heritage, Gibson and finally PRS - but nothing helped, even the amps could not let me escape out of the trap in which I stepped by my thinking.
Fortunately my sons could utilize my hardware for them every half year christmas bells were ringing......
CUT
Giving up to become the bluesman was the best decision for me. (Hard...)
In contrary to this boring story my jump into photography was very simpel: A body and just one lens.
No choice possible digital/analogue just the ASA values....
Walking like a dog in Amsterdam every weekend, just sniffing around the corners and framing things which im my small hometown didn't exist gave fun and - as a very shy guy of around 22 helped me to come closer to individuals totally unknown for me.
By the way, my dutch language improved very much.....
But one thing dropped into my brain yesterday evening:
The old book series from TIME LIFE about photography.
The silver/black hardcover - every one or two months a new book with a given theme arrived and I studied every page not once, but twice.......
Try to get this set, THIS could give you a solid base how photography worked for so many decades before digital arrived. A lot of photographer well known and unknown are introduced - the pics in it will drill into your brain, believe me!
Here a discussion:
http://photo.net/photography-education-forum/00TAIm
OK, now I have to stop........
but Ola, please let us know how things work or have changed for you.
Cheers
Bernd
what a fruitful thread about our passion and frustration on the other side of the coin.....
What you described happened to me around 1992.
Buying a used guitar with 12 strings, knowing 3 chords gave me the kick to play like Peter,Paul and Mary....
and others......I tried very hard, had a teacher and jumped from one guitar to another, always thinking: "The next one will help me to become a guitar player.
After folksongs I tried the blues and very soon I got him.....
Electric guitars went over the desk, from Fender, Heritage, Gibson and finally PRS - but nothing helped, even the amps could not let me escape out of the trap in which I stepped by my thinking.
Fortunately my sons could utilize my hardware for them every half year christmas bells were ringing......
CUT
Giving up to become the bluesman was the best decision for me. (Hard...)
In contrary to this boring story
my jump into photography was very simpel: A body and just one lens.No choice possible digital/analogue just the ASA values....
Walking like a dog in Amsterdam every weekend, just sniffing around the corners and framing things which im my small hometown didn't exist gave fun and - as a very shy guy of around 22 helped me to come closer to individuals totally unknown for me.
By the way, my dutch language improved very much.....
But one thing dropped into my brain yesterday evening:
The old book series from TIME LIFE about photography.
The silver/black hardcover - every one or two months a new book with a given theme arrived and I studied every page not once, but twice.......
Try to get this set, THIS could give you a solid base how photography worked for so many decades before digital arrived. A lot of photographer well known and unknown are introduced - the pics in it will drill into your brain, believe me!
Here a discussion:
http://photo.net/photography-education-forum/00TAIm
OK, now I have to stop........
but Ola, please let us know how things work or have changed for you.
Cheers
Bernd
Richard G
Veteran
Great thread. I recently found second hand "The Camera" from that Time Life series and it called to mind my many readings of those books as a teenager. My all time favourite book bought new (?) is Jacob Deschin's "35mm Photography" full of techinical advice and many examples of the greats with extensive notes of how each picture works. Here and on photo.net there is lots to learn just looking at pictures and seeing the discussion.
A good compact digital is great for a fast learning loop, especially with the exif data. With film, unless you develop yourself the same day a roll taken in one day, the lessons from the failures and the successes from an exposure and setting point of view may be lost. Polaroid was extolled for this benefit in the '60s. Conversely, with film the unit cost and finite resource on any walk is a sobering influence that once inspired me early one morning on a beach walk to try very very hard to make every picture the best that I could make it and not settle for a mere snap. The pain of the broken ribs that got me up so early was a great aid to concentration too.
The Gladwell reference is apt in thinking of the skills of a pro: whatever the situation demands, choosing all the variables on the equipment end creative control of the set up, the experience to know what will work and what won't. But us non-pros can develop a little of that expertise too.
I am returning to the 50mm lens and realize that I could have had just as good a time in photography without any camera other than my first camera and any lens other than a 50. It's all in your head. I am now going to re-read Bernd's contributions to this thread, bookmark the thread and get my Deschin book off the shelf. Thanks Ola and good luck.
A good compact digital is great for a fast learning loop, especially with the exif data. With film, unless you develop yourself the same day a roll taken in one day, the lessons from the failures and the successes from an exposure and setting point of view may be lost. Polaroid was extolled for this benefit in the '60s. Conversely, with film the unit cost and finite resource on any walk is a sobering influence that once inspired me early one morning on a beach walk to try very very hard to make every picture the best that I could make it and not settle for a mere snap. The pain of the broken ribs that got me up so early was a great aid to concentration too.
The Gladwell reference is apt in thinking of the skills of a pro: whatever the situation demands, choosing all the variables on the equipment end creative control of the set up, the experience to know what will work and what won't. But us non-pros can develop a little of that expertise too.
I am returning to the 50mm lens and realize that I could have had just as good a time in photography without any camera other than my first camera and any lens other than a 50. It's all in your head. I am now going to re-read Bernd's contributions to this thread, bookmark the thread and get my Deschin book off the shelf. Thanks Ola and good luck.
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gb hill
Veteran
Great thread indeed. Bernrd your photos are lovely & your wisdom sinks into my soul. The Time Life books are fantastic. I think you can find them at most libraries, thats where I found them. Shame the Canonet doesn't work proper, it was my 1st rangefinder when I first got back into photography after a long hiatus. Be careful not to jump into the gear syndrome of thinking the gear alone will make you a better photographer. Be patient, first decide if you wish to stay with digital or jump into film. If you choose to go the film route, course I know you can choose both, but I think it would be a distraction. Choose the right tool carefully. Many have bought an M6 only to find it wasn't the right camera for them. The camera is a tool choose it wisely. I have cameras I never use because I got caught up in the moment thinking thats the one that will make better. Didn't work. Now I'm in the process of starting a new blog describing my new project, B&W in 365 days. I want to really get the feel & learn to see in b&w. I already have everything I need from developing 35mm film to setting up a darkroom for printing. So what you choose, great luck & let us know how you progress.
aizan
Veteran
make it fun and take pictures you want to look at.
W
wlewisiii
Guest
If you really want to be a photographer, you have to take photographs. Obvious, right? Once you decide that it's really what you want to do, then you have to do it constantly. Take pictures of anything. When you're not shooting, compose shots in your mind for your favorite focal length.
So how?
Find a camera that you're comfortable with and carry it always. It can be new or old; it can anything really just something you like to use. But you have to carry it all the time. Use it all the time. Never - and I do mean never - leave home without it. That's why you must be comfortable with it. For me, even when I go grocery shopping or to the gas station, my Leica IIIf is with me. Always. If buying an expensive M6 will make you carry it, then buy it - but if you're the kind of person who worries about it getting scratched or dinged or even having to be repaired because you (GASP!!!) used it, then get something cheaper. Whatever it is, just carry it & use it. Always.
Then go through your pictures with the knowledge that one or two keepers out of a roll of 36 is doing insanely well. Be critical. Then take the ones you like & put up someplace to be slammed. Pay attention to what other peoples criticism are and balance them with what you think - reality will usually be somewhere in between
Yeah, it's a heck of a lot of work. You'll need to decide if it's worth it. But it's the only way that it's going to happen.
Hope this helps,
William
So how?
Find a camera that you're comfortable with and carry it always. It can be new or old; it can anything really just something you like to use. But you have to carry it all the time. Use it all the time. Never - and I do mean never - leave home without it. That's why you must be comfortable with it. For me, even when I go grocery shopping or to the gas station, my Leica IIIf is with me. Always. If buying an expensive M6 will make you carry it, then buy it - but if you're the kind of person who worries about it getting scratched or dinged or even having to be repaired because you (GASP!!!) used it, then get something cheaper. Whatever it is, just carry it & use it. Always.
Then go through your pictures with the knowledge that one or two keepers out of a roll of 36 is doing insanely well. Be critical. Then take the ones you like & put up someplace to be slammed. Pay attention to what other peoples criticism are and balance them with what you think - reality will usually be somewhere in between
Yeah, it's a heck of a lot of work. You'll need to decide if it's worth it. But it's the only way that it's going to happen.
Hope this helps,
William
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
So, after thinking it over, share your idea...
What's your new "only" project, in a few words?
What "only camera" will you use?
What "only lens"?
What's your new "only" project, in a few words?
What "only camera" will you use?
What "only lens"?
wgerrard
Veteran
How do you define "better photographer"? Understand that and you can change specific behaviors to get there. All the shooting in the world won't help unless you know what you want to produce, assess the shortcomings in your work and then create tactics to eliminate them.
It's a bit like playing a musical instrument, except that you can hire a teacher to provide feedback and guidance. Most of us have to be our own photographic teachers.
EDIT: So, how do you figure out what it is that you want to produce? That's tough. I'm trying to understand it myself. But, I wouldn't worry. Shoot anything that strikes your eye. Some will pan out, many won't. But, eventually, you will will begin to see patterns in the images you like and those you don't. At least, that's what I keep telling myself.
It's a bit like playing a musical instrument, except that you can hire a teacher to provide feedback and guidance. Most of us have to be our own photographic teachers.
EDIT: So, how do you figure out what it is that you want to produce? That's tough. I'm trying to understand it myself. But, I wouldn't worry. Shoot anything that strikes your eye. Some will pan out, many won't. But, eventually, you will will begin to see patterns in the images you like and those you don't. At least, that's what I keep telling myself.
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ola.b
Established
I´m going to do that, once everything is a bit more definite. For now there are a lot of thoughts scrambling through my head.
Things have already changed. This thread has made me really think through and quantify what I want to achieve. As i mentioned above, nothing is solid yet, but I´m (hopefully) getting there.
That is an excellent question. In fact, that is one of the best so far in this thread. I´m not sure I can answer this in words at just now. My first go at it would be to make my photographs interesting to a complete stranger. Even the crappiest holiday snapshot will work for the people that were on that holiday, but it will be crap to everyone else.
If I could make you, a complete stranger, appreciate what I saw on my holiday or on my sunday stroll around town, then I´ve done something..
I think I´ll make a "inspirational portfolio" with photographs that I find exceptional, analyze them and write down the exact things about them that makes them interesting.
Pickett Wilson
Veteran
"My first go at it would be to make my photographs interesting to a complete stranger."
No, no, no, no, no! You are missing it. You can't give a crap about what you think other people want to see or find interesting. Shoot what you are passionate about. Forget about the audience. Perfect your craft. Find your own vision. Viewers don't know what they want to see until they see it. We want to see what you see and feel and experience when you put a camera to your eye.
No, no, no, no, no! You are missing it. You can't give a crap about what you think other people want to see or find interesting. Shoot what you are passionate about. Forget about the audience. Perfect your craft. Find your own vision. Viewers don't know what they want to see until they see it. We want to see what you see and feel and experience when you put a camera to your eye.
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Krzys
Well-known
I am the laziest and most unmotivated guy you will meet and I shoot film for enlarging or scanning. This is pathetic. If you can cook breakfast then you can process analogue material for archiving and viewing.