Before the Internet.

Harry S.

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I'm thinking about what it means to be a photographer.

I make pictures digitally, I enjoy the process of finding a good composition and even the digital post production that goes with it. The net result of this work is to display the images online; which in my case is tumblr.

More and more I'm starting to feel this is unrewarding and unsatisfying. Chasing likes, reblogs, faves on social media feels like...not the right reason for photography. I'm considering deleting all forms of image display online and that is a thought that doesn't even concern me. I'm after something more fullfulling, more zen, more noble even. Perhaps something that photographers did prior to the internet changing our lives.

The question is what is that? I started taking pictures with some consideration in 2007. A relatively short time ago. Film cameras were practically dead, internet was becoming formative. I remember family photograph albums, but am interested to know what art photographers did back before the internet?

Did your photography become more or less enjoyable and/or enlightened when the internet changed things?

Regards,
Harry
 
Interesting question; answer is both a yay and a nay. To get feedback you had to meet people IRL, carrying your photos in a box or some kind of presentation book
(like this http://www.fotoimpex.de/shopen/pres...-book-polypropylene-din-a4-21x3024-pages.html).
You had to be a lot more outgoing to get information, feedback and inspiration. Meeting real people has its advantages of course, but would also give you a rather limited feedback - especially if you hooked up with someone making the same type of photos as yourself.

Also you workflow was different - you had to choose more carefully when going over your contact sheets. Partly because of the price of printing, partly because people get tired if they have to see several 100s of photos in a single meetup (100s of photos on a blog, Flickr or whatever has the same effect - on me at lease).

When you had been seeing and evaluating the work of other people and having engaged in a conversation about it, you would usually leave refreshed, inspired or even exhilarated. Getting "likes" on the net is not the same, and to me of dubious value.

I still use a presentation book for taking my photos to places where I would like to have an exhibition - much more effective showing people a physical print, than referring to a web site.

The work flow was slower of course and could sometimes be a PITA, on the other hand you had to think more about what you were doing...
 
The internet has profoundly changed things for me. I'm a professional artist. Before the net, I would have had to have galleries carrying my work and they would have had to sell a lot of my work for me to earn a living. I live in a midsized midwestern city where art has zero value. I sell more from my website each year than I did from all of the gallery sales I have ever had, combined!

I've got a global audience for my work that I did not have before, and as a result, I was able to support myself and my son just from selling photos from my website. Without the web, my only option for making a living would have been a $7 an hour sh-t job at Walmart. The likes and such bring a bigger audience to my site.
 
I recently hid like 95% of photos on my Flickr... a long explanation as to why ahead:

I took a darkroom photography course last term at school and ended up making a whole bunch of prints. I normally only develop my negatives to scan and put online, but this time I developed them to print. Seeing the print and being able to share them with my friends and family gave me a new view on photography. I began fooling around with Polaroids prior to the course as well. I think the combination of both things, polaroids and access to a darkroom helped me realize the importance of the print.

A print could make someone smile and laugh. It brought up conversation and brought back memories. It was a physical manifestation of a process. I think digital can do that to a certain extent, but maybe just differently than a print does. I spent a few nights with my girlfriend and friends looking through the prints we made and just talking about them and the moments in them.

Maybe leaving a comment and receiving a like is somewhat similar, but I liked how the print brought us together.

I also recently discovered my parents' photo albums from when they were young up till my birth and early childhood.... seeing those photographs and being able to touch them was an experience that couldn't have been replicated through an online gallery.

I think I'm going to re-do my online gallery, keep it as a gallery of my favourite/best photographs. Maybe I'll keep my facebook and instagram for digital moment storage and sharing, and print (via plotter or enlarger) all my photographs and place them in albums! I also think I want to print large and hang them up on my walls and invite some friends over to share :)

Maybe all that above is what it means to be a "photographer", to take photographs you enjoy and share them with those you wish to share them with in whatever way you see fit.

On a side note, when it comes to online work, I believe my intention is split half and half between chasing likes and exposure, and actually sharing what I'm proud of. Somethign I hope to change.
 
I agree with the op that there is something unsatisfying with chasing likes on facebook and other social media. I used to take a lot pleasure in printing my photos with an inkjet printer and giving them away to friends and family. I now realize that most people are more interested in browsing the photos online and do not care for having prints. Even when I was still doing some pro work a few years back, the clients wanted the photos for their websites not for any printed material. We have to face the reality that visual arts will be predominantly viewed on monitor screens in the future.
 
For me, the internet has changed little, when I first started taking photos, around 20 years ago, I didn't care about 'sharing' my images, they were for my own satisfaction, and right now, that is still the case, I don't really share many of my photos.
Digital on the other hand has changed a lot for me, it's made me take more photos, but removed the 'craft' element, which is both good and bad, I love the feeling of achievement of processing and printing film images, but do not have the time to do it, and after a while, it begins to become tedious.

Digital removes this problem, but makes photography too 'easy' from a technical point of view, so it's a mixed bag for me...
 
There isn't any definite answer to these interesting questions.

Yet we can take for almost certain that, for amateur photographers (even people having been photographying for decades and not being jerks at it), online galleries, flickr-like websites etc will not bring anything really interesting out on the long term.

I ceased to update my flickr when they changed their interface on last May and I haven't felt deprived of anything yet. At this point I am even thinking of closing it for good. And this didn't make my production decrease (I have to say, that I don't take thousands of photos a week, I just try to take some very good ones from time to time - maybe it's because I have now accumulated tons of negatives over 35 years of continuous shooting already so my shooting rythm is quite slow - well, it always has been).

For people having to make a living off their photography, things are different.

Yet, some famous ones have some very minimalist web presence, if any - and still have many customers.

As Christopher cleverly wrote, this also depends on where you live, and which audience you want to find...

And - there are so many online photo galleries now, and so many of them resemble each other, that most of the time, when I discover a new one, I quickly look at the first page but don't go ahead if something "special" doesn't strike my eyes.

And I tend to skip everything built with Flash.
 
The internet changed everything. Before, one had to go to openings to meet people, to make contacts, as well as through friends. If you found a gallery you liked, you would have to go and show your face at every opening for months, to see the work they exhibited, to make sure your own fit in with the style and vision of the place. Then, you could call and see what their portfolio review process was. Sometimes they only looked at work that came recommended. It was a long drawn out affair. Akin to dating. Sometimes it lead to something, sometimes not. One showed at venues that might be considered "less" - cafes, restaurants, etc.. I always followed the words of a mentor, "Never refuse a wall space if one is offered. You never know." Thirty plus years later, his words still hold true. I have had some really interesting things happen from the most out-of-the-way exhibitions. Met some really interesting people, and had work purchased by the rich and famous, and lead to more known exhibition outlets. I'm still struggling. I have a family. I have to work a day job. But my work gets done everyday like breathing.

I have an internet presence. I sell what I can. I have a very small following that continues to grow. I don't chase likes and popularity. This is not what one should do their work for. If you like what I do, great. Lets sit down and have a drink and talk. If you don't, great. Lets sit down and have a drink and talk. In the end, one's work is all really for ourselves. If we meet one other person that gets it, well, that helps to confirm you existed.
 
Personally, the internet has had only a small direct impact on my photography, as an amateur. Mostly just from reading discussions and equipment reviews, and being able to buy books of art online.

I don't participate in Flikr, Facebook, Tumbler, etc communities - IMO they intrude too much on my thinking and they distract too much from making images and focus too much on making friends who make snappy comments to be cute online.

99% of my prints line my basement walls, and I have a very small, "closet style" web page with no comments allowed ("take or leave it, thank you").

So - the internet is there but so is my local library and book store.
 
The internet changed everything.
Yes. But this doesn't mean that things are now easier. Because the internet also added the mass factor to the equation, so now you have to compete with much more people than before to have your work seen and appreciated.

I have had my work exhibited and published in books and papers way before the internet came out in people's private lives. Since the internet, I have ceased to exhibit and the most pleasant reward, to my eyes, remains to see my photos published in some literature papers from time to time.

For me the main input of the internet was the ability to make actual and very good friends sharing the same passion for a certain type of photography through some photo forums, because the internet killed the photo-clubs.

And it also killed the photojournalism (in its romantic and passionate form).

Making one's living off photographying doesn't look easier nowadays than before the internet IMO. It may even have become harder.
 
Yes. But this doesn't mean that things are now easier. Because the internet also added the mass factor to the equation, so now you have to compete with much more people than before to have your work seen and appreciated.

I have had my work exhibited and published in books and papers way before the internet came out in people's private lives. Since the internet, I have ceased to exhibit and the most pleasant reward, to my eyes, remains to see my photos published in some literature papers from time to time.

For me the main input of the internet was the ability to make actual and very good friends sharing the same passion for a certain type of photography through some photo forums, because the internet killed the photo-clubs.

And it also killed the photojournalism (in its romantic and passionate form).

Making one's living off photographying doesn't look easier nowadays than before the internet IMO. It may even have become harder.

I never said it was easier. It is just different. Photographers, any business, has to think differently. How do you distinguish yourself from everyone else? Anyone can be anything they want to be on the net. Anonymously. Put up a few images on a website and anyone can call themselves a photographer. Technology has made it easier. It's taken the craft away, the training, the apprenticeships, and changed it into something else entirely.

You have to take a position from what you know and who you are to separate yourself from everyone else. If you want to be in this for the long haul and it's in your DNA, you have to be more then flowers, vacation shots, and sunsets. It's personal now.

Lately, all I think about is the show at MOMA more then 30 years ago - "Mirrors and Windows". There is something there that still resonates after all these years.
 
The internet has made camera buying easier, but has made photography less valuable to the masses. I just do what I want photography wise and if someone ends up liking it, cool. That said, I don't rely on it to pay the bills.
 
I am appreciative of the Internet for things like this forum and several blogs that I find informative and helpful. With my hectic work and family life, I do not have much time for traveling to galleries or joining the one local camera club (I wish I could devote time to the local club).

Posting my pictures online is never about "likes". I use Flickr as a place to dump lots of my snapshot (and the few good/artistic shots) to share with my family since none of my family lives anywhere near me. If they had to wait to physically see me, they'd never want to spend our entire face time looking at the physical pictures I'd bring. But I've gotten comments from several family members they do appreciate the Flickr dumps and want that to continue.

I only recently started on Tumblr. There I am only sharing those few pictures that I feel are artistic. I'm lucky if I post one or maybe two pictures there per month.

Think of the Internet vs prints like digital vs film. Both have their place, and in the end they are just more "tools" for photography. It's really up to you how you choose to use, appropriately or I appropriately, that tool.
 
I'm thinking about what it means to be a photographer.

I make pictures digitally, I enjoy the process of finding a good composition and even the digital post production that goes with it. The net result of this work is to display the images online; which in my case is tumblr.

More and more I'm starting to feel this is unrewarding and unsatisfying. Chasing likes, reblogs, faves on social media feels like...not the right reason for photography.

It isn't and it won't make you happy. It's easy to get into the (highly negative) mindset of "how come all these people get all the attention when their work is no better (or substantially worse) than my own!" - which can really put a damper on your creativity and drive. On sites like flickr, deviantart, and to an even greater extent on tumblr - your work doesn't mean much. Don't correlate likes/faves/whatever with quality or substance. Because frankly the more trite your work is, the more attention you will get. And on a site like tumblr, it's more about who you know, and what circles they're in. Because of the way the site works (reblogs being the way to get attention), you need to align yourself with somebody who is popular to bring attention to your work - especially if it isn't trite, vapid BS. You will basically be at the mercy of those who decide what should and shouldn't be shared on tumblr - which largely negates the entire point of showing work online. I put work online to get away from that sort of BS.

Beyond that though, I think the internet has been largely positive. Although it hasn't changed my attitude towards photography much. The vast majority of my photos are slides, and they don't get shown to anybody except people I specifically want to show. Most of what I post online is stuff that I feel would be useful, informative for people. Photos that are good for reference that might be helpful to other photographers, or illustrators, etc. Or what have you. Sharing info and helping people is really what the internet is about to me.
 
Hi Harry,

Do you have a camera club in your area? My local one is always organizing outings and themed group shows. On one hand, it's just another way of "chasing likes," but there's a more concrete aspect to it.

You talk about something more noble and if you are talking about social change and issue awareness, the internet is your friend. But acting locally, there might be opportunities for small themed exhibits in neighborhood caffe' shops (not sure about caffe' culture in Australia) and photos of local subjects usually play well in those locales.

Good luck!
 
Harry,

I've recently been thinking similar thoughts. Now that the US football season has begun, I may sit in front of the TV, watch a game or two multitasking to change practically all of my Flickr photos friends/family only.

I think I would be better off updating my web site(s) more often instead.

However the internet is vital for commercial efforts. I committed to using The Turning Gate LR web page plug-in system and I am about to purchase their shopping cart/licensing plug-in. I already use Turning Gate's customer selection LR plug in for client project reviews. My image delivery is 100% from my web site.

I think it is useful to invest time in social media to promote sales and market to new clients. But I'm beginning to think non-commercial activities are not helpful.
 
I was compelled to do photography for 25 years before the internet existed.
I feel the same compulsion now. If not more so.
The internet changed a lot as it opened up a much larger audience for my photos.
It didn't change anything with regard to why I do my photography.

I had the same goals before as I do now. To produce, to print, to make books that expressed my thoughts, perceptions, emotions. To participate in the tradition of other photographers.

G
 
Great discussion, although for me, the internet has been pretty much ever present for most of my adult life (17 onwards), and definitely all my picture taking life (24 onwards).

I am often a nostalgic person, but am not nostalgic for the pre-internet/ pre-digital days, and especially not being able to afford to photograph, as was the case for me when younger.

This really is a great time to be a photographer, in my opinion, although most people seem to spend a lot of time worrying about what everyone else is doing. The challenge really is just to cut away all the crap, and focus on the bits that truly matter to us. At least as an amateur. Professionals may have genuine gripes about the direction of things, and the erosion and changes within their industry, but for those who simply like the process and results of photography, this really is a great time, imo.
 
Before The Internet

Before The Internet

Before the internet and digital photography, it took TIME to make a good photo. Shoot, process, print, process, mount etc. This process, being time consuming, forced you to cull only the best images that were worth the time to show. This process forces everything to be "improved" because of the self -culling due to time and money (costs for paper were/are high) constraints.

The internet is the opposite. It drives everything to the lowest common denominator. True it gives great exposure, but it's affect has been to drive prices and quality down (quality of images, that is) since it has made it so easy to push a gazillion images online.

The old way of going to galleries also was time and money consuming. You had to get in your car, drive to the showing, spend time and look. Perhaps this process also brought out the best buyers, although I am not sure about that.

The internet makes it so anybody and can like or dislike anything for any reason and it instantly because "the word".


There now seem to be two approaches - put all your work online for free and charge to learn how to do it, or just use the internet to market your work through your own site. All the photo sharing sites are just places to post images where even the most trite or titillating get all the attention, whether they are good or bad.

Nothing beats hard work, and the social media baby Ashton even attested to that. The hard work in analog photography will still be appreciated by those who appreciate hard work and craftsmanship.

I'ev contemplated giving it all up after 41 years and learn how to paint. Digital just does not seem as satisfying as working a print in the darkroom. Even scanning film, photoshopping and printing does not seem as good.

But as for commercial work, where photography is a means to an end, digital can't be beat. These are factual images, needing clear detail, simple story etc. Time is of the essence here, so it's great to shoot and email to magazines and websites to get images online.

Just don't expect to make any money at it unless you are very, very good.

(That's a summary from Owen Butler of RIT in the 70's and 80's - long before the internet, in internet time - seems perhaps not much has changed)
 
It was certainly a great resource for expanding knowledge, but I would say for me that has been in film processing: developing and printing. Some of that is because my interest in digital is a much smaller part of my work and I'm not that interested in how to turn someones hair blue.

What still excites me is exposing a negative developing it correctly and then either post processing it digitally or wet printing. There is still nothing in my photography book as great as watching under a red light the image come up. And I still think a silver gelatin print is the most beautiful way to look at your work.

If you want to read 'on the internet' about displaying prints Chris Crawford (RFF member) has great monograph on print display.
 
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