Beginner here ... requesting opinion.

[Nando]

Hello,

First, I'm long-winded so I would like to thank you for your time in advance. This is my first post here on RFF, which I found to be an invaluable resource since I've discovered it about a month ago.

I've always been interested in photography but never pursued it much as a hobby until last year. I've always liked rangefinders and as a child I had a lot of fun with my father's Canonet GIII as I was put in charge of taking photos on family outings because I enjoyed it so much. I also used a Leica III (f, I think) that belonged to my grandfather a few times. I got caught up in this new digital craze though and took a beginner's class in digital photography in anticipation using a newly purchased Canon Digital Rebel on a trip to Portugal (my parents are from Portugal and I try to go there every year). I took nice photos most of the time but I ran into problems when taking photos inside old cathedrals and historical buildings where there is low light. In many cases, the use of flash was prohibited. I also found that the Rebel was quite loud and I was always worried about disturbing people who were worshiping. The accoustics in many old cathedrals are such that they magnify any sound considerably and sometimes even add echoes. I wasn't very pleased with photos I took in the interiors of such buildings, especially the ones that had to be taken with no flash at low light. Photoshopping did make it better but in many cases, it also made it look wierder. I probably need to work more on my photoshop skills but I don't really want to.

Bad photos is not the worse part, however. I didn't like carrying around that big thing. I didn't find it too heavy but after entire day of walking with this camera and two big zoom lenses, you start feeling it. All that camera gear was also quite noticible too. Noticible enough that it was stolen.

I teach adults and after sharing my experience with one of my students who was an amateur photographer, he suggested that I take a rangefinder next time with a few lenses. He let me borrow a Leica IIIf body, a CV Bessa R body, a CV 35/1.7 and CV 25/4 lense to try out. Well I was hooked after 3 or 4 rolls. After being reaquainted with my grandfather's camera, I fell in love with rangefinders again. I was very impressed with the Bessa R too.

I love the IIIf but I would rather have slightly more modern camera with a meter. I am pretty much set on purchasing a Bessa T within the next month or so. Although I liked the R, I also like the idea of a separate magnified rangefinder similar to that of the Leica IIIf. I think I can live with the external viewfinders since I didn't have any trouble using external viewfinders with the IIIf I borrowed.

My main concern, and where I would very much appreciate your opinion on is my choice of lenses for travelling. After reading through the posts here, reading the information on cameraquest.com, viewing samples and anything else I could get my hands on in the last month. I narrowed it down to a three-lense kit:

1. CV 21/4 Skopar
At first, I was leaning towards the 25/4 but I thought I could use the extra wideness when shooting the ceilings of old cathedrals, castles and other buildings that I mentioned above and also for sea-side landscapes. I really like the look of the 21 in the samples I've seen - there is just something about it.

2. CV 35/1.7 Ultron
As a normal lense and for low light.

3. CV 75/2.5 Heliar
As a portrait lense and occasional street shooting. I wouldn't mind a 50mm lense but I thought that for travelling, the 75 and a 35 would be ok.

I think I will get a Canonet GIII because of its compactness (and for nostalgia) to go along with the Bessa T. I know its heavier than it looks but its still small.

So what do you guys think? Comments? Questions? Protestations? I look for to your opinions. Thanks again. 🙂

 

[JoeFriday]

hi Nando

that's an interesting setup you're looking at.. it's very rare that anyone mentions the Bessa T on here.. not that there's anything wrong with that body, but systems that are dependent on external viewfinders for all lenses don't seem to be too popular.. and I'm not sure you'd like that setup with the 35/75 combo.. but I've never handled one of those, so I can't say from experience

as for the Canonet.. they're slightly heavy, but that's a good thing.. a little heft helps steady your hand.. I highly recommend having one for toting around when you want a camera that you don't have to worry about.. and the lens is very sharp and contrasty

 

[sf]

The Bessas are a great deal, but apparently sometimes you will need adapters for M mount lenses. I had a Bessa model with a Nokton 40mm f1.4 which I really liked. The lens was sharp as heck and had very soft bokeh, very nice for shooting people. And f1.4 is just what you need for low light shooting.

I am not sure about focusing with an uncoupled lens. But, the skopars are incredible lenses. The ultron 35 1.7 is, from what I've seen, probably the nicest of the CV lenses all around.

If you like shooting with the external viewfinder, get the t and an ultron.

Oh, yes, the Canonet is a great choice. I am just itching to buy one myself. Fast lens, decently wide (40mm, I think), and very well built little cameras. And many of them on the auction sites.

 

[Stephanie Brim]

If I were you I'd go with a Bessa R or R2 and 35/50/75 or 85. The 50mm Nokton is a very nice lens and if you can spend the money so is the 35mm Nokton. The 35mm Ultron is *superb* even wide open.

 

[Kyle]

If I were you I'd go with a Bessa R or R2 and 35/50/75 or 85. The 50mm Nokton is a very nice lens and if you can spend the money so is the 35mm Nokton. The 35mm Ultron is *superb* even wide open.

I'd go with an R (or even R2) with 21/35/75 CV lenses and then maybe a Jupiter 8 50/2 if a 50 is really necessary. That will be a very good setup.

 

[pvdhaar]

I must say that I'm extremely pleased with the Bessa-T myself. Its biggest plus is the 1.5x magnified rangefinder. If you're working in low light/indoors, this is a godsend. No 0.7x combined VF/RF matches the ease with which you can focus this puppy. Besides, if you're going wider than 35, you've got to deal with external finders anyway. You can even try to get a (2nd hand) universal finder if you want to avoid swapping finders between the 35/75.

With respect to your lens selection, I think it makes good sense. The 21/4 is RF coupled, and a better choice for indoors than the non-coupled 25/4. When working at maximum aperture focus guesstimation errors do show if you're looking for them. The other lenses give a nice spread of focal lengths. I wouldn't add a fourth unless there's a photographic need..

 

[lubitel]

I agree with Kyle, you should definitely have a Jupiter-8. Great lens! As far as Bessa-T, personally i dont think I would like the uncoupled RF, especially if I was using different lenses all the time. But if thats the set up you like, then thats great. Enjoy it.

 

[pvdhaar]

.. As far as Bessa-T, personally i dont think I would like the uncoupled RF..

This makes me wonder whether you've ever handled a Bessa-T ?

The RF is coupled to the lens, just like the R//R2/R2a/R3a are. The only difference is that the external VF is separate from the RF.

 

[sf]

yummy. Buy something killer : Bessa T and Nokton 35mm f1.2. You could really focus that massive aperture with that baselength, and the viewfinder would help avoid the blocking issues that the huge lens has.

Kind of pricey lens, but I just researched it, and it looks like the mother of all CV lenses, now. Totally excessive.

 

[rover]

It sounds like you have done your homework and have seleced a very good kit. I actually started with a Bessa R with the 21/35/75mm lenses you have decided on. The camera body is your chioce. It sounds like you are aware of the handling a camera with separate viewfinders and that appeals to you, go for it.

Remember your ltm/m lens adaptor(s) and viewfinders for the 35 and 75mm lenses.

Let us know what you get and show us some photos.

 

[lubitel]

This makes me wonder whether you've ever handled a Bessa-T ?

The RF is coupled to the lens, just like the R//R2/R2a/R3a are. The only difference is that the external VF is separate from the RF.

doh! that's what I meant. Not uncoupled of course, just separate. And yes I tried it out in a store, but never tried shooting with it.

 

[Nando]

Wow. Lots of great responses already. Thanks. Hmm... more things to think about.

I understand the disadvantages of the external viewfinders. It's something that I pondered about quite a bit. I don't mind using the viewfinders but I was concerned about the extra costs. I once calculated the prices for a kit using the Bessa T body and a Bessa R2a body with four lenses - I think it was the CV 15mm, 28/1.9, 50/1.5 and 90/3.5 and with the cost of separate viewfinders, getting the Bessa T ended up being more expensive despite the huge discount. With the 21/35/75 combo, its pretty reasonable I think. I figured that the 21 already had a viewfinder included so I would only need a 35 and a 75 viewfinder. Currently, Camerquest has a special on the 75mm viewfinder if you buy it with the 75/2.5 lense - I think its around $80 off. Now if I end up breaking one - yikes! I am a bit clumsy.

I would really appreciate the extra magnification in the rangefinder when focussing in darker interiors as Pvdhaar mentioned. My eyesight is a bit out of wack too. I've injured my right eye a few years ago and as a result of some vision loss, I have switched from being right-eyed to left-eyed when shooting. So I thought that the Bessa T might also help because of the 1.5x rangefinder and big bright viewfinders. In reality, I'm probably going to be changing my mind about the body several times until I finally order it. I'm almost sure that I'll get a T but who knows, I may just get an R or an R2a. I don't really care about the body though - its the lenses that count. Right?

I like the idea of adding a 50mm Jupiter-8 to the mix. I haven't done much research on the russian lenses but I presume that adding a Jupiter-8 would be quite economical. Thanks for the suggestion Lubitel.

 

[Stephanie Brim]

Pssst...there was an R2 in Excellent condition at KEH for $429. It's all mechanical except for the meter...you don't have to worry about not being able to use the camera if the batteries go dead on you. I would go that route instead of the R2A. But that's just my opinion.

 

[taffer]

Hi (Fer?)Nando, and welcome ! 🙂

As a Bessa-T user (and lover!) myself, I can't really see anything wrong in the (very reasonable) selection of body and lenses you made. Just adding that I used my T for some time with a very fast 50 (Canon 1.2) and an external 50mm 1:1 finder, and that's something I truly recommend trying at least once to anybody using the T.

And as a G-III user, lover, and believer, again I can only see good points in its favor 😀

Oscar

 

[Flyfisher Tom]

Regarding your lens choices, they are excellent. The CV 21mm is an absolute bargain in terms of value and optical quality. Very compact size, great viewfinder, and super sharp. The CV 75mm is also a great lens, wonderful bokeh and build quality. No experience with the CV 35. Welcome and good luck in building your lens kit.

 

[robert blu]

My experience is related to my Bessa R where I set uo a similar lens kit as you think, only difference I went to extreme with a 12mm/5,6 instead of the 21 (which should be a more logic choice, I admit !). But I find I miss a 50mm because the minimal focus with 35 mm is about 0,9 m which means you cannot take details. You could with the 75 but it requires to be more far from subject. Actually I use mostly 35, sometimes the 12,and very rarely the 75.
Of course it depends a lot on your shooting style.

 

[Nando]

Well I'm glad that quite a few people are agreeing with my choices for lenses. I'm considering finding myself a descent 50mm now. It seems like I should give some more thought on the body. I'm going to consider an R2. Yet every time I've considered another body, I always seem to return to the Bessa T even if it is less practical in regards to the viewfinders.

Stephanie, thanks for the suggestion and the heads up on a deal at KEH. Unfortunately, I think someone might have gotten the camera already. I couldn't find it listed on their website.

Speaking of deals, I just missed good Bessa T on ebay a few days ago. A grey 101 Heliar set without the matching rapidwinder. Throughout the final day of the auction I kept debating whether or not it would be worth it because the regular T was priced so low now - even with the excellent 50/3.5. If I remember correctly, the final price was $675 - less than a regular T with the 35/1.7, 35 viewfinder and LTM to M adapter. Of course, I thought that the camera might have attracted a higher final price. I'm kicking myself a little bit over it but there's no use crying over spilt milk.

Maybe I am thinking way too much?

Hi Taffer. Yes my first name is Fernando. My parents have a house in Coimbra (the old Portuguese capital) though my family roots are in a little rural village about 20 minutes outside of the city. I spend most of my summers in Portugal and my winters in Canada (yes, I know its the opposite of what a normal person should do). I once went to Sant Boi to see the Roman baths while visiting Barcelona about 12 years ago. Quite a nice (and busy) town. I try to also visit Spain everytime I go to Portugal since I love the architecture. Your suggestion of a fast Canon 50 is intriguing.

Just another question. What do most people do when it comes to using LTM to M adapters on M-mount Bessas if most of your lenses are LTM? Do you tend to buy one adapter and leave it on the body (i.e. turning it into a LTM-mount body most of the time). Or do you use an adapter on each LTM lense to take advantage of easier lense switching of the M-mount? I never used an M-mount camera before so I don't know if getting extra adapters is worth it.

Thanks,
Fernando

 

[dgray]

If the reason you are looking at the Bessa T body is the increased magnification of the finder, have you considered the R3a as a compromise? You wouldn't get the same level of mag, but you do get 1:1, which is nice in its own right. At the same time you could adjust your lens line-up the slightest bit and end up only using one viewfinder. The 21 needs a separate finder regardless of the body, but it you went with the 40/1.4 instead of the 35/1.7 you would be able to use the R3a's built in 40mm framelines. The 75, then, is still a nice compliment to the 40 and also would not need a separate viewfinder. It seems a nice compromise where you get a high mag body to ensure accurate focusing as well as a more convenient set up without the need to constantly change external finders.

 

[wlewisiii]

Hmm. If the magnification is something you desire, another alternative is one of the Canon LTM bodies with a variable magnification VF. For practical purposes, that means the III & IV series for bottom loaders and the V & VI series for swing back loaders. I would seriously suggest you look for into these - honestly, something like my IVSb sounds like it would be perfect for you if you can live with needing an external finder for wide angle lenses and being a bottom loader. If bottom loading turns you off then the V or VI would give you many options as well.

Good luck however your search leads you.

William

 

[Finder]

To folks in general. Nando was commenting that his Rebel was too loud. My impression of the Bessa is that it is not that quiet - I have only played with them at stores. For the folks who use them, what are your thoughts?