the.ronin
Established
Well, not a total beginner. As a hobbyist, I made my jump into film by picking up a Fuji GSW 690II a few months ago and have not looked back since. My original intent was to compliment my DSLR Nikon D90 which was going to be my workhorse camera. I have not touched that camera since. So I want to get a more conventional, film, rangefinder and also get into color.
The bulk of my shots with this 35mm will likely lean more towards street photography. The fixed lens nature of my 690 suits me just fine but if this is my film naivete talking, feel free to set me straight.
I have been looking at the Voigtlander Vita given its compact size, generally positive reviews, and also great prices. Another is the Minolta Hi-Matic which I believe has interchangeable lenses. The Yashica Electro is another I've had my eye on. Or, given my new found propensity for film, save up for a Leica CL (other models I am aware of may be out of my price range entirely).
Generally, I really like the advantages of a rangefinder. For this particular camera, I want something relatively compact and fast to shoot for candid street photography. What I liked about the Vita was how saturated the colors come out - but I'm worried that's something I will find annoying over time (if this is an accurate statement to begin with).
Advice greatly appreciated.
The bulk of my shots with this 35mm will likely lean more towards street photography. The fixed lens nature of my 690 suits me just fine but if this is my film naivete talking, feel free to set me straight.
I have been looking at the Voigtlander Vita given its compact size, generally positive reviews, and also great prices. Another is the Minolta Hi-Matic which I believe has interchangeable lenses. The Yashica Electro is another I've had my eye on. Or, given my new found propensity for film, save up for a Leica CL (other models I am aware of may be out of my price range entirely).
Generally, I really like the advantages of a rangefinder. For this particular camera, I want something relatively compact and fast to shoot for candid street photography. What I liked about the Vita was how saturated the colors come out - but I'm worried that's something I will find annoying over time (if this is an accurate statement to begin with).
Advice greatly appreciated.
ibcrewin
Ah looky looky
ha ha ha.. That's how I got into it.. It's funny how the digital camera gets put away!
I like the CV 35mm color skopar. It's probably the cheapest new lens you'll find. The Canon 35mm f/2.8 is also very nice and for about $300 it's a relative bargain
I like the CV 35mm color skopar. It's probably the cheapest new lens you'll find. The Canon 35mm f/2.8 is also very nice and for about $300 it's a relative bargain
ZeissFan
Veteran
Some of the Voigtlander Vitos do not have rangefinders; some do.
Make sure the one that you plan to buy does. That would include the CLR and certain Vitomatics. Of the folding models, only the Vito III has a rangefinder, being based on (or being the basis for) the Prominent.
The Vitos generally don't give oversaturated images. In fact, I would expect the opposite, because of the type of coating.
A Yashica Electro will definitely need to be serviced either to replace the foam seals or ensure that it "clunks" when you advance the film. Also, you will need to refit the camera's battery chamber, because it uses an oddball (no longer available) battery, as I recall. I made some alterations in a couple of these cameras so they could accept two CR2 lithium cells.
As far as fixed-lens rangefinders, there are so many models available that it would take a book to mention them all.
But briefly, they are divided into several groups. You should expect that all of them will need some level of service.
- The German cameras from the 1950s and 1960s. These will be sturdily built - mostly all metal bodies. A few of the Voigtlanders have the f/2.0 Ultron, an excellent lens. There are folding cameras from Agfa, Zeiss Ikon, Voigtlander and Welti. And there are nonfolding models from those same companies, as well as others from Balda to Braun to Edixa and others. No foam seals. Only the Japanese used foam seals.
Also, there was the much-respected line of Kodak Retina cameras. There are knob-wind folding cameras and more evolved models with interchangeable front lens elements. The top models had a f/2.0 Schneider or Rodenstock lens (f/1.9 for the IIIS). The last fixed-lens Kodak Retina rangefinder is the Retina IIS (I think). This model often flies under the radar. It's a nice little camera with a f/2.8 Schneider Xenar lens and a coupled selenium meter, which often is still accurate.
- The Japanese cameras from the 1950s. Offerings from Konica, Minolta and Olympus. The Olympus Wide-S is notable because it has a 35mm lens and a coupled rangefinder. The Petri 35 "Color Corrected" is a very nice model, as long as it works correctly. These generally don't have foam seals. A Konica I, II or III are also good choices.
- The Japanese cameras from the 1960s. These were full-size cameras from Canon, Konica, Minolta, Fujica, Mamiya Sekor, Yashica, Olympus, Petri and others. They had fast lenses in the 45mm-55mm range. Well built, although they have foam seals.
- The Japanese cameras from the 1970s. These are much smaller cameras, and some have become cult cameras, such as those from Olympus (particularly the RC) and Canon. However, others made fine cameras, which for the most part were aperture-priority autoexposure or programmed autoexposure. Also, check out cameras from Minolta and Konica (with near identical Vivitar counterparts). The full-size Yashica Electro was available in the late 1970s. The foam in many of these disco-era cameras often has turned to goo.
- The German models from the 1970s. Otherwise known as "the last gasp." Just a handful, I think. There is the Zeiss Ikon S 312 and its sibling the Voigtlander VF101. And a bit later, the Rollei XF35 and its sibiling the Voigtlander VF135. I can't think of any other fixed-lens German rangefinders from the 1970s. No foam seals, of course. The Rollei XF 35 is vastly overpriced, I think. It has a good lens, but the quality of construction is dubious. I paid $10 for the first one in 1979, and it stopped working 50 feet from the camera store. I paid $7.95 for the second one at a thrift store in 2008. It is still working.
- I think the Yashica/Kyocera Contax T was among the last - or possibly was the last - fixed-lens rangefinder. Tends to be very pricey. A small camera, I think.
Make sure the one that you plan to buy does. That would include the CLR and certain Vitomatics. Of the folding models, only the Vito III has a rangefinder, being based on (or being the basis for) the Prominent.
The Vitos generally don't give oversaturated images. In fact, I would expect the opposite, because of the type of coating.
A Yashica Electro will definitely need to be serviced either to replace the foam seals or ensure that it "clunks" when you advance the film. Also, you will need to refit the camera's battery chamber, because it uses an oddball (no longer available) battery, as I recall. I made some alterations in a couple of these cameras so they could accept two CR2 lithium cells.
As far as fixed-lens rangefinders, there are so many models available that it would take a book to mention them all.
But briefly, they are divided into several groups. You should expect that all of them will need some level of service.
- The German cameras from the 1950s and 1960s. These will be sturdily built - mostly all metal bodies. A few of the Voigtlanders have the f/2.0 Ultron, an excellent lens. There are folding cameras from Agfa, Zeiss Ikon, Voigtlander and Welti. And there are nonfolding models from those same companies, as well as others from Balda to Braun to Edixa and others. No foam seals. Only the Japanese used foam seals.
Also, there was the much-respected line of Kodak Retina cameras. There are knob-wind folding cameras and more evolved models with interchangeable front lens elements. The top models had a f/2.0 Schneider or Rodenstock lens (f/1.9 for the IIIS). The last fixed-lens Kodak Retina rangefinder is the Retina IIS (I think). This model often flies under the radar. It's a nice little camera with a f/2.8 Schneider Xenar lens and a coupled selenium meter, which often is still accurate.
- The Japanese cameras from the 1950s. Offerings from Konica, Minolta and Olympus. The Olympus Wide-S is notable because it has a 35mm lens and a coupled rangefinder. The Petri 35 "Color Corrected" is a very nice model, as long as it works correctly. These generally don't have foam seals. A Konica I, II or III are also good choices.
- The Japanese cameras from the 1960s. These were full-size cameras from Canon, Konica, Minolta, Fujica, Mamiya Sekor, Yashica, Olympus, Petri and others. They had fast lenses in the 45mm-55mm range. Well built, although they have foam seals.
- The Japanese cameras from the 1970s. These are much smaller cameras, and some have become cult cameras, such as those from Olympus (particularly the RC) and Canon. However, others made fine cameras, which for the most part were aperture-priority autoexposure or programmed autoexposure. Also, check out cameras from Minolta and Konica (with near identical Vivitar counterparts). The full-size Yashica Electro was available in the late 1970s. The foam in many of these disco-era cameras often has turned to goo.
- The German models from the 1970s. Otherwise known as "the last gasp." Just a handful, I think. There is the Zeiss Ikon S 312 and its sibling the Voigtlander VF101. And a bit later, the Rollei XF35 and its sibiling the Voigtlander VF135. I can't think of any other fixed-lens German rangefinders from the 1970s. No foam seals, of course. The Rollei XF 35 is vastly overpriced, I think. It has a good lens, but the quality of construction is dubious. I paid $10 for the first one in 1979, and it stopped working 50 feet from the camera store. I paid $7.95 for the second one at a thrift store in 2008. It is still working.
- I think the Yashica/Kyocera Contax T was among the last - or possibly was the last - fixed-lens rangefinder. Tends to be very pricey. A small camera, I think.
MarylandBill
Established
I don't think there is anything wrong with fixed lens cameras, in fact, there are some real bargins out there if you keep your eyes open. Sure, you can't swap lenses out, but often the lenses on these cameras are really great, and the prices relatively low. I have an Olympus 35 sp that I found at a thrift store in excellent condition for about $40. Also since fixed lens rangefinders tend to either have normal or wide angle lenses, it forces you to get relatively close to your subject and engage them. I don't shoot color (and haven't been shooting film for long period) so take my advice with a grain of salt, but I would add Olympus, Canon and Fujica's to your list of fixed lens cameras to keep an eye out for.
cosmonaut
Well-known
If you are going to shoot a lot of B&W I would go for the Canonet QL-17. That little 40mm lens is amazing.
Olympus OM cameras are also nice cameras. Small and easy to use. If you want cheap the XA-2.
Olympus OM cameras are also nice cameras. Small and easy to use. If you want cheap the XA-2.
L Collins
Well-known
Hexar AF. Stunning fixed lens 35mm f2. Think of it as an offbrand pre-Ash Summicron with a free Hexar camera as a body cap. All for $350.
one90guy
Well-known
For a fixed lens the Yashica's are hard to beat. I finally settled on the Yashica Lynx 5000e.
David
David
matt_mcg2
Established
Everyone has their own opinions. Personally, I hate the Yashica Electros. Huge, ungainly things with poor ergonomics, horrible reliability, and performance that isn't all that amazing. Mike has given an excellent summary above. For me, the Retinas and the smaller 70s Japanese rangefinders are fun and offer excellent performance. Also, screwmount Leicas can be surprisingly cheap if you shop around.
02Pilot
Malcontent
Looking at the now rather daunting pile of cameras I seem to have accumulated since returning to film a few years back, the one I wish I'd had as a starter camera is my Canon New Canonet QL19 (the smaller one; same body as the later GIII). Full manual or shutter priority, fast lens (the QL17 is marginally faster still), and good handling. There are tons of these out there. I think they make excellent introductory cameras for the rangefinder-curious.
matt_mcg2
Established
Also, while this is RFF, 70s and early 80s SLRs offer fantastic value. Olympus OMs, Pentax MX or MEs, some Canon FD-mount bodies, etc.
Compact, with large bright viewfinders, and good cheap lenses.
Compact, with large bright viewfinders, and good cheap lenses.
02Pilot
Malcontent
Good point. Far cheaper buy-in for an SLR system than any interchangeable lens RF system, and there is some great stuff out there.
bgetty
Brandon Getty
You can't go wrong with the compact Olympus RFs (RC, RD, XA) or the Canonets.
I'll join matt_mcg2 in speaking out against the Electro. I found it to be bloated, cheap-feeling and unbalanced. The lens and viewfinder may be nice, but the handling left much to be desired.
I'll join matt_mcg2 in speaking out against the Electro. I found it to be bloated, cheap-feeling and unbalanced. The lens and viewfinder may be nice, but the handling left much to be desired.
anjoca76
Well-known
Thank you! Someone else who dislikes the Yashica Electros! I can't stand almost everything about it.
But I digress...
Tons of great advice above. My recommendation would be either the Canonet QL17 or one of the Olympus fixed-lens rangefinders. I cut my teeth on cameras like this before picking up a Leica CL. Once I got that, it was over for me--and I mean that in a good way.
Now to contradict myself: If I have one piece of advice it is to avoid spending too much cash on lesser cameras that need light seals and other work for the sake of saving money. I should have put all the money toward a Leica M and lens since that's where I finally ended up. But hindsight is 20/20, as they say.
the.ronin
Established
Thanks so much everyone. I have some serious thinking to do then as the Yashica Electro and Voigtlander Vito were on the top of my list LOL.
Should already owning a Nikon DSLR be of any consideration as far as looking for a 35mm film camera with compatible lenses? Although this will get into SLR discussion and I don't want to get too outside this forum's scope.
Should already owning a Nikon DSLR be of any consideration as far as looking for a 35mm film camera with compatible lenses? Although this will get into SLR discussion and I don't want to get too outside this forum's scope.
ZeissFan
Veteran
I remember eyeing up a Yashica Electro in the late 1970s. Never did buy it. I bought a couple recently, and they are large cameras. Sort of throwbacks to the 1960s. I had a chrome Electro35 and a black GT (seems that most of the GTs are black).
Fixed them up, refitted the battery chamber for lithium cells. Didn't use them. Sold both.
Months later, I bought a couple of the chrome models, which are now in boxes at a family friend.
They feel a bit crudely made compared with other cameras. Not poorly made but maybe loose, as if someone at the Yashica factory forgot to tighten about half of the screws.
@the.ronin - I probably would find a serviced Olympus 35 RC or a Canonet and see if you like shooting with them. If not, you probably can sell it for the same price that you paid. So it becomes a no-loss experiment.
Fixed them up, refitted the battery chamber for lithium cells. Didn't use them. Sold both.
Months later, I bought a couple of the chrome models, which are now in boxes at a family friend.
They feel a bit crudely made compared with other cameras. Not poorly made but maybe loose, as if someone at the Yashica factory forgot to tighten about half of the screws.
@the.ronin - I probably would find a serviced Olympus 35 RC or a Canonet and see if you like shooting with them. If not, you probably can sell it for the same price that you paid. So it becomes a no-loss experiment.
Chris101
summicronia
Yes. The backward and forward compatibility of Nikon lenses is without compare in the camera business, with the exception of the M mount.
ZeissFan
Veteran
Pentax has done a very good job, offering backward compatibility with K-mount lenses, as well as the many 42mm screw mounts via an adapter.
I didn't know that Nikon AF lenses could be used on non-autofocus film bodies.
I didn't know that Nikon AF lenses could be used on non-autofocus film bodies.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
For fixed-lens RFs, I've never seen better lenses than Konica offered. The bodies were nice, too: solid engineering. For my money they wiped the floor with anything Canon, Olympus or Yashica ever did.
Then again, the Olympus Pen W is lovely, even if the paint is often scabby.
Cheers.
R.
Then again, the Olympus Pen W is lovely, even if the paint is often scabby.
Cheers.
R.
John Bragg
Well-known
I would reccomend getting an autofocus Nikon body as well as your RF, then you can indeed use your existing glass for film. An F90x is a good choice and is very cheap these days.
css9450
Veteran
Absolutely!
I'd missed it in your first post that you have a D90.
Reading the other responses, I kept thinking to myself, the man needs a Nikon FM/FM2/FE/FE2. Unless you absolutely have to have a rangefinder, any of those cameras will do exactly what you're looking for and it'll look good and have that wonderful tactile feel and delicious film-winding motion of a classic compact Nikon. And any MF lenses you buy for it will work on your D90 too. Your AF lenses will work - up to a point. Anything that's not a "G" lens should work just fine on a MF camera. "G" lenses will work in Shutter Priority or Program mode, but I've not recommended one of those bodies.