fuchsto
Newbie
Hopefully i don't break any etiquette on this board by posting a newcomer thread like this, but:
Just two months ago i decided it would be a good idea to invest in a Leica M6 and switch to analog. It's an old dream coming true, and i am loving it. Why exactly i'm loving range finders and film could fill a whole article.
Anyway, i'm an absolute beginner, yet enthusiastic.
Now, being a beginner, i don't know where to get good critical advice on my work. I know my intention when taking a photograph, i care about composition and motives (i used to draw and paint for quite some time), but i don't know how to improve my technique or the impact of my photographs.
Right now, i try to learn by analyzing photographs that impress me, trying to find out why they do. Just like everyone else does, i guess.
There are some guys "giving advice" to me right now (let's call them "the digital gear-head trolls"), and all of their comments are in the line of: "Why do you shoot film? There is not a single reason to do so! Also, why do you take concert photos without auto-ISO? The camera does not matter! Get a 50D and a Sigma lens! Analog sucks, you can't even tell which exposure you had without Exif!". You get the idea.
On flickr, all i get is comments like "nice shot", or "awesome". And people on flickr are quite easy to impress, i think (a mediocre HDR shot is just enough for 20 peaple to leave a "WOW!!11!").
Long story short, i think i could greatly benefit from some real, thoughtful critique by someone that does not call me a Leica snob (i am not) or worships everyday pictures from old walls, and shares his or her experience and advice.
So, if anyone finds the time to look over my shots on flickr (yeah, flickr, i know ... ) and post some critique that might help this newbie to improve, i'd really appreciate it!
Oh, here's my account: http://flickr.com/fuchsto
Just two months ago i decided it would be a good idea to invest in a Leica M6 and switch to analog. It's an old dream coming true, and i am loving it. Why exactly i'm loving range finders and film could fill a whole article.
Anyway, i'm an absolute beginner, yet enthusiastic.
Now, being a beginner, i don't know where to get good critical advice on my work. I know my intention when taking a photograph, i care about composition and motives (i used to draw and paint for quite some time), but i don't know how to improve my technique or the impact of my photographs.
Right now, i try to learn by analyzing photographs that impress me, trying to find out why they do. Just like everyone else does, i guess.
There are some guys "giving advice" to me right now (let's call them "the digital gear-head trolls"), and all of their comments are in the line of: "Why do you shoot film? There is not a single reason to do so! Also, why do you take concert photos without auto-ISO? The camera does not matter! Get a 50D and a Sigma lens! Analog sucks, you can't even tell which exposure you had without Exif!". You get the idea.
On flickr, all i get is comments like "nice shot", or "awesome". And people on flickr are quite easy to impress, i think (a mediocre HDR shot is just enough for 20 peaple to leave a "WOW!!11!").
Long story short, i think i could greatly benefit from some real, thoughtful critique by someone that does not call me a Leica snob (i am not) or worships everyday pictures from old walls, and shares his or her experience and advice.
So, if anyone finds the time to look over my shots on flickr (yeah, flickr, i know ... ) and post some critique that might help this newbie to improve, i'd really appreciate it!
Oh, here's my account: http://flickr.com/fuchsto
Damaso
Photojournalist
Welcome to the club! There are lots of people here who will give you advice. You will have to sift through it to see if any of it is good. Here's my 30 second take on what you've posted online...
You have a fairly well developed eye but when it comes to photographing people you have to get much, much closer. This is nothing new for a beginner but something you have to work at or you will never get out of the habit of standing a bit too far away. You can get very tight with the 50mm so do it! See how it changes your relationship with your subject as well as the photos you take...
Best of luck, keep on shooting!
You have a fairly well developed eye but when it comes to photographing people you have to get much, much closer. This is nothing new for a beginner but something you have to work at or you will never get out of the habit of standing a bit too far away. You can get very tight with the 50mm so do it! See how it changes your relationship with your subject as well as the photos you take...
Best of luck, keep on shooting!
Steve Bellayr
Veteran
Obviously, you do not need anyone's advise (especially digital heads) on your concert photos. You might want to experiment with 1600 film at some point. Also, increased contrast. As for the remainder there are a lot of photos there. Most are very good. You are doing well in capturing expressions in face and body. There are a very few that could be tighter or centered better (cropped). Again, experiment with increased contrast (that is just what I like but you may feel differently). I see that you have the 50mm elmar-m. It is an excellent choice. The colors are vivid. If you want to post a few pictures on this site for comment that would be better because it is difficult to provide specific analysis for so many.
gho
Well-known
Hey, welcome! I just had a quick look at your stream and I like the look of the photos. Damasio's advice is good, that is something I am working on myself. In short: getting close to the action and keeping a well balanced composition. What I also like are slightly wider lenses. These allow me to step in close but at the same time, to show something of the context. However, this should be possible with a 50 also, maybe a bit more comfortable with regard to shooting strangers. Another thing I started working on recentoly is to add something like a "catch point" in a photograph, something like a statement about what the photograph is about. For example an interaction and the emotions involved. Sometimes I like to take just abstracts. There are many different roads, explore, enjoy and find your own way of expression!
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ferider
Veteran
Hi Tobias,
welcome and thanks for sharing. You do have a good eye. In terms of critical feedback, (a) don't overdo it with non-horizontal shots, and (b) some of the closer portraits that you labeled with "no digital post production" would benefit from dodging and burning in PS, to improve shadows in faces in particular (you could do it in the darkroom, so why not in PS ?). For example, "Mark No. 3, looking at smoke", quite a good portrait otherwise. Also, some of the scans haven't been completely cropped, you can still see the frame border.
Cheers,
Roland.
welcome and thanks for sharing. You do have a good eye. In terms of critical feedback, (a) don't overdo it with non-horizontal shots, and (b) some of the closer portraits that you labeled with "no digital post production" would benefit from dodging and burning in PS, to improve shadows in faces in particular (you could do it in the darkroom, so why not in PS ?). For example, "Mark No. 3, looking at smoke", quite a good portrait otherwise. Also, some of the scans haven't been completely cropped, you can still see the frame border.
Cheers,
Roland.
brainwood
Registered Film User
Hi welcome to the forum. The advise so far is good, demaso's get closer is ringing in my ears too but is the way to go. If you post to the gallery here there is quite a good culture of comment and constructive criticism and you can post in the critique forum for a more direct approach. Picking out a few shots you are unsure about or are very pleased with could help you see new places to go with your work
Chris
Chris
fuchsto
Newbie
Hey all,
amazing, i opened the thread about an hour ago and i already have lots of qualified comments. Quality and quantity, wow.
First, thanks to all of you for your time and the motivating words!
Damaso, absolutely, i tend to prefer close shots, too. I'm just too shy / cowardish to get closer. I have some tactics to look like a harmless tourist with a cheap old camera. But still, getting close seems harder to me than, say, guessing exposure.
Steve. I am careful with hard contrast because i'm afraid to lose precious zones. It's probably because i am so glad when i got good shadows and highlights that i hesitate to crank up contrast. But right, many black and white photos i really like have hard contrast and deliberately give up some detail in shadows and highlights. Could be that hard contrast pronounces composition?
gho, street photographs with a "catch point" are my personal ideal. I have two, perhaps three shots that *might* be getting there. On wide angles: I got a Summicron C 40mm last week (fits on M but selects 50mm frame lines, amazing lens considering the affordable 250 EUR i had to invest) but i want to be comfortable with close shots first
Ferider, yes, i take non-horizontal shots either by accident when shooting from the hip, or when standing too close in front of a tall motive. I took some non-horizontal shots on the concert to add some ... "dynamic" attitude, but when skipping through the shots now that you mention it, i prefer the horizontal ones, just looks more authentic to me.
Oh and my (slightly) snobbish opinion on digital post production changed rapidly when i produced my first paper prints (another thing i want to get better at). I now totally aggree, it's not "cheating" to do wet work in PS or Gimp. I talked to the 80 year old pro i bought my enlarger from (Focomat IIc, an adorable beast). He explained to me that post production always is cheating in the sense of altering the information on the negative, but art as well, as long as it supports a message. Plausible! Lesson learned.
Brainwood, it's my first thread here and i am totally convinced of the comment culture here already, i really appreciate it. I will work on my framing and close shots and post some examples here as soon as i see some progress.
Again, thank you all!
amazing, i opened the thread about an hour ago and i already have lots of qualified comments. Quality and quantity, wow.
First, thanks to all of you for your time and the motivating words!
Damaso, absolutely, i tend to prefer close shots, too. I'm just too shy / cowardish to get closer. I have some tactics to look like a harmless tourist with a cheap old camera. But still, getting close seems harder to me than, say, guessing exposure.
Steve. I am careful with hard contrast because i'm afraid to lose precious zones. It's probably because i am so glad when i got good shadows and highlights that i hesitate to crank up contrast. But right, many black and white photos i really like have hard contrast and deliberately give up some detail in shadows and highlights. Could be that hard contrast pronounces composition?
gho, street photographs with a "catch point" are my personal ideal. I have two, perhaps three shots that *might* be getting there. On wide angles: I got a Summicron C 40mm last week (fits on M but selects 50mm frame lines, amazing lens considering the affordable 250 EUR i had to invest) but i want to be comfortable with close shots first
Ferider, yes, i take non-horizontal shots either by accident when shooting from the hip, or when standing too close in front of a tall motive. I took some non-horizontal shots on the concert to add some ... "dynamic" attitude, but when skipping through the shots now that you mention it, i prefer the horizontal ones, just looks more authentic to me.
Oh and my (slightly) snobbish opinion on digital post production changed rapidly when i produced my first paper prints (another thing i want to get better at). I now totally aggree, it's not "cheating" to do wet work in PS or Gimp. I talked to the 80 year old pro i bought my enlarger from (Focomat IIc, an adorable beast). He explained to me that post production always is cheating in the sense of altering the information on the negative, but art as well, as long as it supports a message. Plausible! Lesson learned.
Brainwood, it's my first thread here and i am totally convinced of the comment culture here already, i really appreciate it. I will work on my framing and close shots and post some examples here as soon as i see some progress.
Again, thank you all!
Vics
Veteran
First I'd like to say that I like your pictures very much. You're certainly on the right road. Your camera handling skills seem pretty well advanced. I like that you shoot mostly people. A lot of us have had to struggle with shyness when shooting people on the street, andf you seem to have that all figured out. Now I'll make a few comments and you can take them for what they're worth.
1. You seem to shoot people when you have b&w film in the camer4a, and buildings when it's color film... ?
2. When the sky is brighter than the ground, exclude the sky when metering.
3. I think your style would benefit from moving to real black & white film, and I think it should be Kodak Tri-X, developed in D-76. I think most Leica shooters here would agree. I personally don't like those chromegenic (is that the term?) films, 400CN and XP2. No jazz there...
4. I've moved recently from a 50mm lens (20 years) to a 35, and looking at your pictures, I can see why some folks call the 50 "a short telephoto." You seem to like those pictures (as I do) that are really two photos in one. Example: the two couples eating on the park bench. I think that kind of photo comes a lot more often with a 35. 35 and 50 are a classic Leica kit.
Keep doing what you're doing. These comments are just because you asked for them. Welcome to the forum and keep posting!
1. You seem to shoot people when you have b&w film in the camer4a, and buildings when it's color film... ?
2. When the sky is brighter than the ground, exclude the sky when metering.
3. I think your style would benefit from moving to real black & white film, and I think it should be Kodak Tri-X, developed in D-76. I think most Leica shooters here would agree. I personally don't like those chromegenic (is that the term?) films, 400CN and XP2. No jazz there...
4. I've moved recently from a 50mm lens (20 years) to a 35, and looking at your pictures, I can see why some folks call the 50 "a short telephoto." You seem to like those pictures (as I do) that are really two photos in one. Example: the two couples eating on the park bench. I think that kind of photo comes a lot more often with a 35. 35 and 50 are a classic Leica kit.
Keep doing what you're doing. These comments are just because you asked for them. Welcome to the forum and keep posting!
fuchsto
Newbie
Vics, thank you very much for the feedback, and also: Chapeau for the work in your flickr account!
1. Well, i don't use color film that much, it's a coincidence. For street photographs, i prefer black & white as there are many colors in the street distracting from the motive. There are lots of great color street photographs of course, but (at least to me) it's harder to build up a composition when also having to care about color.
2. Okay, that sounds sensible. Yes, i had trouble with contrast when i tried to catch clouds - well observed!
3. Yes! As long as i didn't have a dark room, C41 was just easier to get developed. I switched to home-developed HP5+ and FP4 on Ilford Perceptol last week and i can need any advice on film / chemistry / processing there is, so: Thanks! I'm quite satisfied with the results i get in my pure-Ilford workflow (including VC paper) so far, but i didn't expect too much from my first home-developed films. As i didn't really optimize my workflow yet, i can easily switch to non-Ilford products and see what i get. I need practice in the dark room anyhow.
4. It's true, i like those "parallel" motives. I will use a Summicron C 40mm for those. With a 35mm, i could get a step closer, but it should be okay for now.
Again, thanks to all of you, i will follow your advice and post the results.
1. Well, i don't use color film that much, it's a coincidence. For street photographs, i prefer black & white as there are many colors in the street distracting from the motive. There are lots of great color street photographs of course, but (at least to me) it's harder to build up a composition when also having to care about color.
2. Okay, that sounds sensible. Yes, i had trouble with contrast when i tried to catch clouds - well observed!
3. Yes! As long as i didn't have a dark room, C41 was just easier to get developed. I switched to home-developed HP5+ and FP4 on Ilford Perceptol last week and i can need any advice on film / chemistry / processing there is, so: Thanks! I'm quite satisfied with the results i get in my pure-Ilford workflow (including VC paper) so far, but i didn't expect too much from my first home-developed films. As i didn't really optimize my workflow yet, i can easily switch to non-Ilford products and see what i get. I need practice in the dark room anyhow.
4. It's true, i like those "parallel" motives. I will use a Summicron C 40mm for those. With a 35mm, i could get a step closer, but it should be okay for now.
Again, thanks to all of you, i will follow your advice and post the results.
Haigh
Gary Haigh
Hi Tobias, Looks like you don't need my advice as your pics look good to me.
Damaso
Photojournalist
It IS hard. BUt you don't need any special tactics to get close. You are a photographer, embrace that feeling and get as close as you need. Everyone needs to develop a system of working but don't pretend to be anything except what and who you are, Trust me, people are more accommodating than you think. What is important is how you carry yourself. People notice how you behave. If you seem relaxed they will more often than not be relaxed as well.
A god way to practice this is to photograph people you know well. Get comfortable in their space and eventually you will be able to translate that into photographing strangers. But practice does make perfect!
Good luck!