Beginner's Black & White developing questions

thanks again everybody for posting with great advice. the fixer and developer shouldn't be disturbed in my closet as im the only one who goes in it but i will still try and separate them and put them in trays as suggested. i also started shooting with my 35 rc and i must say its kind of strange not focusing through the lens like on my slr but i like it. i will be taking some photos of an event tomorrow where they enact a car accident. sadly won't be b&w since this is going to be a test roll that im taking to costco. will update once i get my supplies in the mail
 
hi guys so i have been researching and am now unsure if i should start off with d76 or HC110 ... as of now the only reason i would like hc110 is the shelf life vs d76 stock shelf life but then again if i only use it as one shot im not sure if it will really matter? what are your guys' experience with d76 and hc110? i will be shooting arista premium 400 (tri X) and fix with formulary tf5
 
I use HC110 and get great results, One thing to keep in mind is that you have to use a minimum of 6cc of the syrup per roll. For solution B (1:31) you would end up with 192 cc at the minimum, which isn't really enough for one roll (you should have about 300 to be safe, so I would use 9cc) but for dilution F (1:79) you get a minimum of 474 which is more than a 1 roll tank can carry.
This is no problem in practice as you just use a two roll tank for one roll. The other great thing about HC 110 besides shelf life is that under different dilutions it acts differently, -high contrast or low grain. It's also almost impossible to go wrong with with Tri X and is very easy to mix up as a syrup (which unlike a powder that I'm always afraid of inhaling).
 
Download the Kodak data sheets online for the film and developer you will use; they provide good information on solution preparation and handling and developing.

I prefer D76 stock developer as I don't care for the increased grain from using the 1:1 dilution (which is indicated in the D76 data sheet). I make up one gallon (3.8 liters) of D76 stock solution and store it in four 1-liter soda bottles (plain seltzer water bottles preferred). The PET plastic is a good oxygen barrier, the bottles can be squeezed to eliminate air before capping, the thin walls are good for adjusting temperature in a water bath, and they are free. 1 liter D76 stock develops 4 rolls of 36-exposre 135 film without developing time adjustment but you should filter it between developing sessions with a coffee filter as silver removed from the film during development results in some minor debris in the solution. Actually, it's good practice to filter all the solutions you use. The bottle with 0.8 liter of D76 will develop 3 rolls.

Also make sure your tank is at the same temperature as the developer because if it is not, the developer temperature will change, which will result in underdevelopment (developing solution temperature less than required) or overdevelopment (developing solution temperature higher than required).

Enjoy, it is fun and with time you will develop your own ways of getting it done.
 
Another vote for HC-110 for a multitude of reasons (in no particular order):
The concentrate lasts forever.
Cheap - 16 oz bottle covers a lot of film.
You make up only what you need - no left overs -easy storage.
Super easy to mix up with basic graduates and small measuring cups.
TriX, HP5, Eastman XX, Acros 100 all develop beautifully in all dilutions.
Stand develop or standard routine.
Loads of info.

But whatever your choice, stick with it so you learn the routine.
It's FUN.
 
mwoenv said:
Download the Kodak data sheets online for the film and developer you will use; they provide good information on solution preparation and handling and developing.

I prefer D76 stock developer as I don't care for the increased grain from using the 1:1 dilution (which is indicated in the D76 data sheet). I make up one gallon (3.8 liters) of D76 stock solution and store it in four 1-liter soda bottles (plain seltzer water bottles preferred). The PET plastic is a good oxygen barrier, the bottles can be squeezed to eliminate air before capping, the thin walls are good for adjusting temperature in a water bath, and they are free. 1 liter D76 stock develops 4 rolls of 36-exposre 135 film without developing time adjustment but you should filter it between developing sessions with a coffee filter as silver removed from the film during development results in some minor debris in the solution. Actually, it's good practice to filter all the solutions you use. The bottle with 0.8 liter of D76 will develop 3 rolls.

Also make sure your tank is at the same temperature as the developer because if it is not, the developer temperature will change, which will result in underdevelopment (developing solution temperature less than required) or overdevelopment (developing solution temperature higher than required).

Enjoy, it is fun and with time you will develop your own ways of getting it done.
Click to expand...
so do you reuse your stock some times? i see you mentioned filtering

John Cox said:
I use HC110 and get great results, One thing to keep in mind is that you have to use a minimum of 6cc of the syrup per roll. For solution B (1:31) you would end up with 192 cc at the minimum, which isn't really enough for one roll (you should have about 300 to be safe, so I would use 9cc) but for dilution F (1:79) you get a minimum of 474 which is more than a 1 roll tank can carry.
This is no problem in practice as you just use a two roll tank for one roll. The other great thing about HC 110 besides shelf life is that under different dilutions it acts differently, -high contrast or low grain. It's also almost impossible to go wrong with with Tri X and is very easy to mix up as a syrup (which unlike a powder that I'm always afraid of inhaling).
Click to expand...
i am looking for a nice balance between contrast and low grain so i will try and look at pictures of each developer some more and go from there.
 
pretty sure im set on d76 1:1 and arista premium 400 ... going to goodwill tomorrow to try and see if i can find any supplies or any "cool" cameras/finds. going to be my first time thrifting (wish me luck! or post tips!)

i got my Bower 27" x 30" changing bag today and have my simon omega ss steel tank with some 35mm spools....

i also shot another roll of cheapo kodak ultramax 400 so ill see how the results are after i take my two test rolls to get developed tomorrow.

after that i will just have to order my b&w film and chems!
 
Some pointers on easy deals, empty pickle jars are great for storing the one shot stuff your going to use just for that session. Use chip clips (the plastic bag sealer) to hang negatives to dry from coat hangers. The metal clips from B&H are about 1000% the cost and less effective. I use a smartphone as a dark room timer, Ansel Adams used a metronome, you don't need the $30 clock. You can find the syringes for measuring out syrup at wall mart in the pharmacy or baby care section also. I've always used a bottle opener to open up film cannisters, they even taught us on them in college. I suppose a multi-tool or Swiss army knife works well too.
Hope that helps.
 
*chris said:
i am looking for a nice balance between contrast and low grain so i will try and look at pictures of each developer some more and go from there.
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One thing that's important for good grain is agitation, generally the less agitation the less contrast. Less lets you use longer development times and lower dilutions which means less grain. If you scan you can increase contrast in what ever program you use. If you print traditionally there are high contrast papers that will usually do the trick. Low contrast is usually desired when developing because it means you'll have more detail and more to work with when printing.

This is why HC110 is so great as it's so versatile, Edwal FG7 is also very good in this respect.

Here is Tri X 400 developed in HC 110 (Dilution B). One inversion every 3 minutes with constant inversions for the first 30 and last 15 seconds. Total development time was 7 minutes.

Earthen1of1_zpsbf483561.jpg
 
well my thrifting didnt go too well... i know im not going to score a leica m3 for $15 but really the only even close to interesting thing was a Polaroid spectra camera and i didnt even bother with it. other than that it was just a bunch of stereo stuff but maybe ill try again tomorrow...

i am expecting to get the cash i am going to use for d76, tf5 and some arista premium tomorrow so maybe next week i will have my first roll developed.

Also, when making d76 stock solution do i have to use the whole bag of powder or can i only use half of the bag to make half a gallon of developer so it can last me a little longer if i only plan to develop 1 or two rolls a week? what sized graduated cylinders should be large enough? i was thinking a 250ml and a 500ml would be fine.
 
*chris said:
well my thrifting didnt go too well... i know im not going to score a leica m3 for $15 but really the only even close to interesting thing was a Polaroid spectra camera and i didnt even bother with it.
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Chris, as you're probably already aware, the valuable stuff at Goodwill has gone online. (In fact, it was apparently a store in your area that started it, and then it became the national Goodwill online shop.) I totally understand them doing this; they're just trying to raise more money for their causes. Film cameras are a classic case of where the liquidity locally is probably very small (the 5 remaining film buffs in the area may never find the store so cameras might never sell even at $5), whereas the aggregation of the 5 film buffs in each locality into one national/global, online marketplace = a large pool of bidders (liquidity) and things go for at or near (or above?) market prices. So unless you find a Goodwill affiliate who doesn't use the national online thing, great finds are unlikely.

Independent thrift stores might be a different story.

--Dave
 
Argenticien said:
Chris, as you're probably already aware, the valuable stuff at Goodwill has gone online. (In fact, it was apparently a store in your area that started it, and then it became the national Goodwill online shop.) I totally understand them doing this; they're just trying to raise more money for their causes. Film cameras are a classic case of where the liquidity locally is probably very small (the 5 remaining film buffs in the area may never find the store so cameras might never sell even at $5), whereas the aggregation of the 5 film buffs in each locality into one national/global, online marketplace = a large pool of bidders (liquidity) and things go for at or near (or above?) market prices. So unless you find a Goodwill affiliate who doesn't use the national online thing, great finds are unlikely.

Independent thrift stores might be a different story.

--Dave
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well it was my first time so i may give it a try some other time but for now it's not on top of my list since i already have a nice oly 35 rc and have a developing kit ... just need to order my film and chems😎
 
Well i figured out that for my 2 35mm reel ss steel tank it takes 250ml to cover the bottom reel but 300ml gives it a little room.

is it possible to only use some of the bag of d76 to make lets say just 750ml of developer at a time? im sure if i take the time to do the math it can all me measured out and calculated. i have a dark olive colored glass wine bottle that i will use for my developer and a green soda bottle to mix my fixer in and a plain plastic gallon milk jug to keep room temperature filtered water in
 
This brings back memories. I used to take clear juice glasses and divide my D-76 and mix what I needed. This is why many on here like HC-110.
 
I'd basically echo what everyone else has said above. Some general rules of thumb from my experience:
How much working solution? For steel tanks, 250 mL for one reel, 500 mL for two. For plastic tanks, 300 mL for one, 600 mL for two. Always err on the side of too much solution rather than too little.
If you're using milk jugs or other repurposed containers, be sure to label them accordingly; you can put a piece of plastic wrap between the top of the jug and the lid to help guard against their not being strictly airtight. Generally, in normal storage like a plastic bottle, a batch of D-76 will last about six months.
Mixing your solutions with distilled (or at least filtered) water will help minimize the amount of crap on your negatives, which is more of a factor if you're scanning instead of wet printing.
For your fix, don't mix up the whole 4 liters at once. Mix up about a liter or so, store it in a bottle, and reuse it until you've exhausted it. Then mix up another liter and repeat.

But NO, you cannot do this for powdered developers, since the dry mixture may or may not be homogeneous. You have to mix up the whole thing. If you want to mix a little developer at a time as you need it, then you have to go with a liquid concentrate developer like HC-110, Ilford DD-X, Ilfosol 3, Rodinal, etc.

Good luck!
 
so if im not going to make the whole gallon at one time should i just try a concentrated liquid developer so i only make what i need?

i guess ill have to start researching liquid devs for d76 now :O...

so besides HC-110 i would maybe consider rodinal even though im going for smooth grain but thats not on freestylephoto
 
Chris: If you are aiming at M6 , it means you are pretty serious about B&W... You see Black & White is about "statement". You are going to want your pictures have a certain feel, an interpretation about reality. That means also that you should be using some entirely different developers with TRI-X ( or arista 400) I would suggest D-76 and RODINAL. They give you two distinctly different feel of graphic impact with your images. D-76 is "middle of the road" and Rodinal gives you the feel found in Ralph Gibsons images: Distinctive but sharp grain. Very Graphic style.. I personally use HC-110 and Rodinal combined as a mix. for one litre ( about one quart) 3cc of rodinal and 3cc of HC-110 syrup- Gives very nice but moderate grain, more rodinal, more grain and vice versa more HC-110 gives softer negatives. The beauty of this is that you can replinsh the developer with stock syrups, I have now a 3 litre amount that has had about 20 rolls thru and with some replenisher, it just keeps going on without any adjustment to the original 6-7 minutes developing time. Besides: A little surprise element is interesting...
 
Chris,

You may be overthinking this. D76 is a great developer, especiallyl for Tri-X. It's also cheap, at less than $7 a bag (and even less for the Freestyle knock-off, which I don't bother with). Mix up a gallon in tap water at 125* F or greater (stir it long enough for the flakes to dissolve). Let cool. Cut it at 1:1, at 68* (use ice cubes if necessary to cool it down). Develop for 9 3/4 minutes (use whatever timer you want, but there's *nothing* like a big fat GraLab). Water stop. Fix. Rinse 20 mins. Then add distilled water for your final Photo Flo or other wetting agent. Shake the reel. And hang the neg to dry -- no squeegee, as you may scratch your work.

As others have said, pick *one* developer and one film, then control your variables till you've got it down.
 
Chris, Freestyle Photo does indeed have Rodinal. Rodinal was made by Agfa, which went out of the photo business; since then, other manufacturers are making it under different names but it's still the same thing:

Adox Adonal
Compard R09 One Shot
Foma Fomadon 09

I myself use the Compard. Rodinal is best with slower films (under ISO 400) and gives "honest grain," i.e., it isn't a solvent-action, grain-reducing developer like D76.
 
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