Being A Real Camera Collector (not just a GAS hospitalized folk)

R

ruben

Guest
Some days ago, a week perhaps I browsed into the www.ussrphoto.com website of Vladimir Kern. He is a new collector of Soviet cameras with several hundred pieces.

This aroused my interest into the world of camera collectors, an emotional world that I outspokenly say it is unknown to me.

I know people collect any sort of things, like stamps, old cars, etc etc, and in this context there is no reason why cameras should be outside.

It is just that I have never been hitched by this phenomena and I think it may be of interest to many of us to make some tour into this world.

True, many of us have a closet with several dozen cameras, but most of us purchased them for use first of all. Here I would kindly ask that in case any of us find camera collecting absurd, or whatever punishable crime, kindly expose your ideas in a true respectable spirit, leaving room to collectors among us to open their world.

Vlad, you have the microphone.

Cheers.
Ruben
 
A very good friend of mine is a furniture-maker.

I love her furniture.

She does not collect chisels. Or planes. Or saws. But she knows what works and what doesn't work, and chooses the best for her craft.

I would think her a bit sick if she ever showed me a collection of her chisels. Yuck.

She makes perfect insanely great furniture using the best tools but does not see the need to collect the tools.
 
ClaremontPhoto said:
A very good friend of mine is a furniture-maker.

I love her furniture.

She does not collect chisels. Or planes. Or saws. But she knows what works and what doesn't work, and chooses the best for her craft.

I would think her a bit sick if she ever showed me a collection of her chisels. Yuck.

She makes perfect insanely great furniture using the best tools but does not see the need to collect the tools.
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Jon, my friend, perhaps we can deal within the photography world. There is a phenomena of camera collecting. Feel free to criticize it. But having an outspokenly collector around, Vladimir Kern, I would like to size the opportunity and learn about his world, and through him about the phenomena.

Long ago I heard in one of those cheapy TV promos about Hollywood stars, a commentary from another actor about Jack Nicholson that left me impressed:
Every time Jack enters the studio, he does it with the curiousity as if it was his first day.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
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ruben said:
True, many of us have a closet with several dozen cameras, but most of us purchased them for use first of all. Here I would kindly ask that in case any of us find camera collecting absurd, or whatever punishable crime, kindly expose your ideas in a true respectable spirit, leaving room to collectors among us to open their world.



Cheers.
Ruben
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Ruben,
anyone that has a closet full of cameras is a collector, whether they deny it or not.

Collecting FSU gear? :eek:

Kiu
 
ClaremontPhoto said:
A very good friend of mine is a furniture-maker.

I love her furniture.

She does not collect chisels. Or planes. Or saws. But she knows what works and what doesn't work, and chooses the best for her craft.

I would think her a bit sick if she ever showed me a collection of her chisels. Yuck.

She makes perfect insanely great furniture using the best tools but does not see the need to collect the tools.
Click to expand...

Comparing cameras to chisels?

Blasphemy :eek:

Kiu
 
NIKON KIU said:
Ruben,
anyone that has a closet full of cameras is a collector, whether they deny it or not.

Collecting FSU gear? :eek:

Kiu
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HI Kiu,
With all due respect, I disagree. One situation is when you purchase cameras for use and don't find satysfaction, or want upgrading along time, or suffer from GAS. This is not true collecting.

A totally different situation is when you try to gather a comple series of certain cameras, outspokenly not for use.

Since 99,99% of us do use cameras for picture taking, we may reach an easy consensus about the non-sense of collecting cameras just for collecting. But let's instead open our ears and hear the other side with an open mind. We even may learn something.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
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Well Ruben, it's a very new world to me too, and I have dove into it and can't seem to resurface as I am completely addicted to collecting every single camera that was ever produced in Russia and USSR...

I guess personally for me, it's all about the history. And of course I like how these cameras feel in your hand.. for instance, with pre-war NKVD FEDs - you hold one in your hands and think of all these cameras were made by little kids, orphans taken from the street and organized into a work commune... each model has its own significance in history...

I was lucky enough to meet a few experienced long time FSU collectors who had became my so-to-say "gurus" who I come to for advice and a good story (Thank you Bill, Aidas, Luiz, Alain, Yuri!). So I learn as I go... In a sense we are all (collectors) keepers of the history of this micro-world of photographic industry.. by collecting all types of variations of different cameras, comparing and logging serial numbers, stated years of production and overlaying all that on historical background, we can extrapolate important industry and trend changes as they are affected by these various political or social climates.

Acquiring all these Soviet and Russian artifacts is somewhat a nostalgic hobby for me since I am originally from FSU, and it is quite exciting to help lift the iron curtain as these cameras were shrouded in mystery for the most of the last century. This was probably also one of the reasons that I have created ussrphoto.com... I have ran into a wall once I started treading beyound the confines of Jean Loup Princelle's book which only covers about 400 different models. Information was decentralized and a lot of it I have come into possesion by word of mouth... cameras I have not dreamed of exist in private collections that are only now coming to light...

Did you know there are close to at least 1200 FSU camera models out there? They will also be featured, by the way, in a new book that is coming out hopefully this year, written by Viktor Suglob in Belarus. The book will be called "1200 Cameras from USSR"... watch for english version sometime in next year or so...

Or what about the mystery of A and B prefixes on Kiev III cameras? No one knows what it is... it is often very exciting being a detective :)...

These are not only tools, I strongly protest to that statement! In my eyes all these cameras, or having all these cameras reperesent an anthrpological journey. How many lives had been ruined by this KGB F-21 camera I have sitting quetly on my shelf now, what did that 1932 Fotokor live through to get to United States, what did it see, how many generations of families histories did it witness? I know I'm romantisizing a lot of it, but really, the history behind these is astounding, once you start digging...
 
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I could see myself getting a few more FSU cameras to satisfy the need to own cameras I don't use ... if that makes sense!

It bothers me having a $600.00 Leica (several actually) sitting in the cupboard that I don't use since I decided to concentrate my photographic efforts thorough my Ikon and Hexar. The FSU's will fill a gap somewhere between photographer and partly reformed gearhead without tying up money that I can't afford these days.

I suppose that wouldn't really be collecting as such it's more like a control situation! :p
 
Thank you Vlad, you have indeed broadened my insight with the hystorical research interest of the camera collector, I nevre thought about. But where fits in the aspect of gathering such really big amounts of cameras ?

Cheers,
Ruben
 
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I agree with Vladislav, I also started buying these cameras (kievs, feds, zorkis, contax) for their historical value (or story) but also for the challenge with using them. I live in Canada and have no affiliation at all with the FSU. It also explains the reason why I had to buy two 1937 Contax cameras. No one buys these cameras because they produce better results than a modern camera. Lets not kid ourselves, we enjoy the challenge of using these cameras and collecting them. I also have an Olympus E-3, E-1, E-300. Why should I even bother buying an old Kiev, if it wasn't related to my interest in the history and challenge of using these old cameras.
 
Ruben, why does a museum curator buy everything? To have proof, research objects, artifacts, to have milestones of the history, to have it all available for research.

For example, now on USSRPhoto forum there is an interesting topic of vulcanite discoloration on early FED cameras, a lot of us wouldn't have been able to get anywhere without having these cameras on hand, closely examining certain details with a magifying glass and reporting the results... a collective effort like that uncovers a lot of mysteries.
 
USSRPhoto said:
Ruben, why does a museum curator buy everything? To have proof, research objects, artifacts, to have milestones of the history, to have it all available for research.

For example, now on USSRPhoto forum there is an interesting topic of vulcanite discoloration on early FED cameras, a lot of us wouldn't have been able to get anywhere without having these cameras on hand, closely examining certain details with a magifying glass and reporting the results... a collective effort like that uncovers a lot of mysteries.
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I must say your researching approach sounds more and more interesting as you unfold it.

I ask myself if most outspoken camera collectors are like you.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
That's right, it's all about unraveling the truth and having the means to do it in terms of proof... for me it's not just bunch of tools on the wall that you forget about after you buy it... I have bought a pretty rare Moskva 3 a lot time ago.. it's been sitting on my shelf for about 4 months then I decided to do an inventory of all serial numbers... I could not find one of the Moskva.. after getting some help on forums I was informed it was on the inside of the camera.. I opened it up and I had to sit down because the number on it was 5000006... this was the 6th Moskva 3 camera ever to come off the assembly line... it was an amazing feeling to hold such camera in my hands.. if you have a very rare camera you probably know it... that's what makes you keep going and asking for more :)


Vlad
 
I don't think "absurd" is an accurate way to describe how I feel about collecting. I definitely don't fit in the collector mindset though, as even though I own relatively few things in general, I find myself regularly eyeing my stuff and wishing I had less just for the sake of the reduced volume.

I find it easiest to understand the collecting spirit in others when it takes the form of historical interest and the collector thus becomes a sort of amateur museum curator, such as Vlad there appears to be. This is a point of view I can respect, as the interest is in the context of the items as well as their physical presence and the collector becomes a lore keeper.

While I like knowing about things, I'm just not the sort to want examples of all those things around me. Every one of my cameras was acquired because I felt it would serve me in some niche as an active camera.
 
I am not sure Ruben. I think different people collect for different reasons. Some do it because they have to have one of everything, some may do it as an investment. Trying to collect one of everything in terms of Leica or Nikon or perhaps even Canon would be way beyond the means of most. However, basing a collection on FSU gear is not only affordable but also quite enlightening. There is the research element already mentioned. With something like FSU gear it could be quite absorbing. It is relatively easy to get a book on Leica gear but many of the FSU records are either lost or destroyed. I don't have sufficient space/money to go beyond Pentax and Fujica. However, I can satisfy much of the interest in FSU lenses and their differences from the research I have been doing using the lenses that I have serviced for other members.

There is also perhaps the "thrill of the chase". Looking for a "rare" item or the thought that you might find a slightly different model that hasn't been classified yet.

Kim

ruben said:
I must say your researching approach sounds more and more interesting as you unfold it.

I ask myself if most outspoken camera collectors are like you.

Cheers,
Ruben
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On the contrary. I quoted you but addressed VALDEMAR. By the mere answering you uncovered yourself.

Next time be nicer. Specially when you are treated nice.

Cheers VALDEMAR,
Ruben
 
Zain Gesungt


farshteisht ?
 
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Ooookkayyyy... This is possibly the most surreal thread I have seen around here in many a long day. I was going to make a sensible observation about collecting - something along the lines of Lady Bracknell - "one is a tool, two is a collection", but I feel that would be out of place. Instead I feel a more Magritte-esque "This is not a collection" is perhaps more appropriate.

Regards,

Bill
 
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