thegman
Veteran
Hi All,
I've never had a Range Finder before, and in fact, not used a film camera for maybe 10 years, but recently I became interested in photography, and bought a Sigma DP1. It's a great camera, but it's a bit limited and I'm considering getting something a bit different. SLRs don't really interest me, so a Range Finder might be more interesting. I'd love an Epson RD1, but the price is just too high, so now I'm thinking, to shock of those around me, about getting a 35mm camera.
So, I see a Contax G2 can be had very inexpensively, and a Bessa R2a is pretty cheap second user. Should I be considering anything else? Anything I should bear in mind? And what's a good starter lens? I like the idea of the Nokton, as my DP1 lens is pretty slow, and I enjoy night time photography, but is it suitable as an all rounder too?
I need this to be pretty cheap, as I'm just putting a toe in the water and can't justify huge sums.
All the best
Garry
I've never had a Range Finder before, and in fact, not used a film camera for maybe 10 years, but recently I became interested in photography, and bought a Sigma DP1. It's a great camera, but it's a bit limited and I'm considering getting something a bit different. SLRs don't really interest me, so a Range Finder might be more interesting. I'd love an Epson RD1, but the price is just too high, so now I'm thinking, to shock of those around me, about getting a 35mm camera.
So, I see a Contax G2 can be had very inexpensively, and a Bessa R2a is pretty cheap second user. Should I be considering anything else? Anything I should bear in mind? And what's a good starter lens? I like the idea of the Nokton, as my DP1 lens is pretty slow, and I enjoy night time photography, but is it suitable as an all rounder too?
I need this to be pretty cheap, as I'm just putting a toe in the water and can't justify huge sums.
All the best
Garry
cweg
Well-known
Hi Garry,
I never owned a Bessa, but most people who are using it are very satisfied. IMHO the R2A is a very good choice. A cheap, but very good lens is the Jupiter- 8. It's 50mm/f2, so you can use it for available Light. You need an adapter to put it on the M-Mount. Both will cost at ebay about € 50,- together. Have a look at www.flickr.com and search for "Jupiter -8" you'll find a lot of pics there.
.....and welcome to the world of RFF
I never owned a Bessa, but most people who are using it are very satisfied. IMHO the R2A is a very good choice. A cheap, but very good lens is the Jupiter- 8. It's 50mm/f2, so you can use it for available Light. You need an adapter to put it on the M-Mount. Both will cost at ebay about € 50,- together. Have a look at www.flickr.com and search for "Jupiter -8" you'll find a lot of pics there.
.....and welcome to the world of RFF
tritiated
Well-known
The Bessa R would be cheapest second hand, and have the really nice features (primarily the viewfinder) of the Bessa range. You could then get a Nokton 50mm 1.5 or Canon 50mm 1.4/1.8 for relatively cheap too - if you want a fast lens. There are lots of other choices for slower and smaller lenses cheap. Russian screwmount lenses can be very cheap.
The Bessa R is screwmount/leica thread mount (LTM) only. R2 and R2A/M R3A/M are M mount but that shouldn't matter, generally the cheapest lenses are screw mount - but are still great quality. I have an R3A and 3 screwmount lenses, each mounted with an (inexpensive) M to screwmount adapter.
You could probably get a secondhand Bessa R + nice lens for the price of a secondhand R2A/M R3A/M body alone.
The Bessa R is screwmount/leica thread mount (LTM) only. R2 and R2A/M R3A/M are M mount but that shouldn't matter, generally the cheapest lenses are screw mount - but are still great quality. I have an R3A and 3 screwmount lenses, each mounted with an (inexpensive) M to screwmount adapter.
You could probably get a secondhand Bessa R + nice lens for the price of a secondhand R2A/M R3A/M body alone.
newspaperguy
Well-known
I'd vote for the 'R' too. The screw mount (Leica thread mount or LTM) lenses can be adapted later for use on M series cameras. The can also be used on the wealth of older rangefinders by Leica, Canon and others, should you decide to go that way.
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
The Contax G has no rangefinder. It is a AF/focus assist camera with interchangeable lenses and a zooming, parallax compensated telescope viewfinder. Given the fantastic lenses, they are amazing value for the money - a complete 28-45-90 G2 kit is cheaper than one recent Leica lens of similar optical performance. But the handling is closer to a point-and-shoot than to a rangefinder - while it has a more comfortable handling than most luxury compacts (with a real aperture ring, and dedicated time and focus knobs), it has no focus confirmation other than electronic, and motor driven electronic focusing only. I like the G's (the smaller G1 even more than the G2) - but if you are determined to get a camera which is physically more immediate than the ones you already have, you would probably be disappointed.
Sevo
robin a
Well-known
Bessa R with a J3 is a good lowlight choice,nice camera-good glass.
Robin
Robin
tyrone.s
Well-known
A Bessa R was my first rangefinder. Excellent camera with a very bright viewfinder (not squinty at all), a good range of framelines built in (35/50/75/90). Good, predictable metering and build quality for the money. Consider the cost of the Bessa R versus the Voigtlander VCII light meter. Crazy value for money when you think how much just the VC meter costs. Plus it's still new enough to not have any real problems of older rangefinders
As others have said you can start off with (relatively) cheap Russian lenses.
If you want to try a Nokton then you'll want an M camera of course. I wouldn't really imagine any Bessa would be great for the Nokton due to the short base length of the rangefinder.
Do you want aperture priority or will you be happy with full manual?
As others have said you can start off with (relatively) cheap Russian lenses.
If you want to try a Nokton then you'll want an M camera of course. I wouldn't really imagine any Bessa would be great for the Nokton due to the short base length of the rangefinder.
Do you want aperture priority or will you be happy with full manual?
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Colman
Established
The Bessas are good rangefinders, no "first" about it.
I think I'd go for an R2/R3/R4/a/m rather than an R, if I could afford it - wider selection of lenses you can use and generally a somewhat better camera. Exactly which of those you pick depends on whether you want aperture/manual and what focal lengths you think you'd like to use. You afford to experiment with lenses - buying and selling second-hand - at relatively little cost.
I think I'd go for an R2/R3/R4/a/m rather than an R, if I could afford it - wider selection of lenses you can use and generally a somewhat better camera. Exactly which of those you pick depends on whether you want aperture/manual and what focal lengths you think you'd like to use. You afford to experiment with lenses - buying and selling second-hand - at relatively little cost.
Ray Kilby
Established
Also look out for the Konica RF. was a very good camera and is an M mount/
paulpp
Member
G series
G series
I have recently changed from a Contax G1 to a R2A and a R3A (I'm hooked obviously).
Mt principle reason for changing is that I found the Contax viewfinder much too (physically) small - the Bessa'a are such a great improvement.
Personally I would go for an Aperture priority everytime. Can still be used manually, but also gives the opportunity for the grabbed shot.
G series
I have recently changed from a Contax G1 to a R2A and a R3A (I'm hooked obviously).
Mt principle reason for changing is that I found the Contax viewfinder much too (physically) small - the Bessa'a are such a great improvement.
Personally I would go for an Aperture priority everytime. Can still be used manually, but also gives the opportunity for the grabbed shot.
thegman
Veteran
Thanks to everyone that replied, it seems that the Bessas are well regarded and that I probably can't go far wrong with one. I think for the moment, I still want aperture priority, and use it at least while I get used to range finders and film.
To be honest I'm not really familiar with why a Nokton would not be suitable, I thought that those lenses were created especially for Bessa cameras? My main beef with the DP1 is it's slow lens, so I'd like to get one as fast as possible, so I never use a flash and don't need a tripod too often.
Anyway, I'll think about it for a while before jumping in, and if anyone can recommend a good UK dealer of second user kit, would be much appreciated.
All the best, and thanks again to everyone that replied.
Garry
To be honest I'm not really familiar with why a Nokton would not be suitable, I thought that those lenses were created especially for Bessa cameras? My main beef with the DP1 is it's slow lens, so I'd like to get one as fast as possible, so I never use a flash and don't need a tripod too often.
Anyway, I'll think about it for a while before jumping in, and if anyone can recommend a good UK dealer of second user kit, would be much appreciated.
All the best, and thanks again to everyone that replied.
Garry
le vrai rdu
Well-known
Bessa a good first Range Finder?
Yes, and not only a first one, go for it
Yes, and not only a first one, go for it
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
Get an R3... So you can use, if necessary, screw mount lenses with adapter AND enjoy all the benefits of latest CV M mount lenses line...
Cheers,
Juan
Cheers,
Juan
Colman
Established
The Bessa's have a sorter rangefinder base than some (all?) the Leica's so that the precision of focusing is a bit lower, which makes precise focusing more difficult with something like a Nokton wide open because of its shallow depth of field. I wouldn't worry about it.
I'd keep an eye on the classifieds here and try and get something suitable from someone in Europe.
first a bessa?
first a bessa?
Hi Thegman,
a Bessa is a good first choice. i got mine 3 years ago , an R2a with 35 2.5 in mint condition for 500 euros,but: do not forget, its not built like a Leica. i lost the eyepiece suddenly: 20 dollars to buy a new one, my pancakes front lens loosens periodically , the finder system (the overlay of the double images) is a bit out of the way, and since yesterday the rubber coating under my right hands finger is getting loose , not enough glue. I can live with, but i have Leica R cameras R3 and R6 for 25 years and that is another feeling
Greetings
first a bessa?
Hi Thegman,
a Bessa is a good first choice. i got mine 3 years ago , an R2a with 35 2.5 in mint condition for 500 euros,but: do not forget, its not built like a Leica. i lost the eyepiece suddenly: 20 dollars to buy a new one, my pancakes front lens loosens periodically , the finder system (the overlay of the double images) is a bit out of the way, and since yesterday the rubber coating under my right hands finger is getting loose , not enough glue. I can live with, but i have Leica R cameras R3 and R6 for 25 years and that is another feeling
Greetings
bessa good choice
bessa good choice
Hi Thegman,
e bessa R2a or R3a is a good choice, but not with an bulky nokton, the camera is so small an discreet with a 35 1,4 and a 50 2.5. So i preferred take it with me to New York instead of my digital Nikon and the 15-50 zoom.
i made the choice for the 50.2.5 , i had also mounted before buying the 50 1.5 but it was to bulky on the camera.
greetings
bessa good choice
Hi Thegman,
e bessa R2a or R3a is a good choice, but not with an bulky nokton, the camera is so small an discreet with a 35 1,4 and a 50 2.5. So i preferred take it with me to New York instead of my digital Nikon and the 15-50 zoom.
i made the choice for the 50.2.5 , i had also mounted before buying the 50 1.5 but it was to bulky on the camera.
greetings
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thegman
Veteran
Do you mean that in the finder, the photo appears in focus, but when developed, it's slightly out of focus? Would that not be a bit annoying? I wonder maybe a Leica is worth saving for?
Cheers
Garry
wgerrard
Veteran
I've had my R4M for a couple of years and like it a lot. It's light and very comfortable to carry and hold for hours at a time.
Two things to think about: First, what focal lengths do you think you will be shooting with? Different Bessas take lenses of differing focal lengths. Or, to be more precise, they provide different sets of framelines for different focal lengths.
Two, if eyesight is a concern, check the magnification factor.
Two things to think about: First, what focal lengths do you think you will be shooting with? Different Bessas take lenses of differing focal lengths. Or, to be more precise, they provide different sets of framelines for different focal lengths.
Two, if eyesight is a concern, check the magnification factor.
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
It doesn't depend on the brand or camera price... It depends on the effective base length (EBL) of the rangefinder/viewfinder.
For example, the last Bessa M mount model, the R4, has the smallest EBL amongst bessas, because its finder is designed for an ultrawide vision without external finders. Lenses above 50mm and with fast apertures have narrow depth of field, so that wonderful camera is not the best option for such lenses requiring very precise focusing, specially at short distances where the depth of field is less than a fraction of a head...
The first Bessa M mount model, the T, has the largest EBL amongst bessas, superior to the vast majority of Leicas including old and new ones, so it's a great companion for any other smaller EBL body... With the Bessa T you see a huge patch where you can align the two focusing images comfortably...
No matter the money, we can't have everything in just one body here in RF world... That's so much fun!
Cheers,
Juan
For example, the last Bessa M mount model, the R4, has the smallest EBL amongst bessas, because its finder is designed for an ultrawide vision without external finders. Lenses above 50mm and with fast apertures have narrow depth of field, so that wonderful camera is not the best option for such lenses requiring very precise focusing, specially at short distances where the depth of field is less than a fraction of a head...
The first Bessa M mount model, the T, has the largest EBL amongst bessas, superior to the vast majority of Leicas including old and new ones, so it's a great companion for any other smaller EBL body... With the Bessa T you see a huge patch where you can align the two focusing images comfortably...
No matter the money, we can't have everything in just one body here in RF world... That's so much fun!
Cheers,
Juan
BillBingham2
Registered User
Let me throw a monkey wrench in here. The GR-D III has an f1.9 28mm equilivant lens on it.
Stepping back to the Bessa conversations, they are fine cameras. As well built as a ZI or a Leica, no, but they do hold up reasonable well. I looked at the price difference and said that over 15 years I could buy a different Bessa every five years if I needed to replace it for the same cost as a new Leica.
If I look at the number of Bessas that I know are out there, the number of lurkers in the CVUG and here, I've not heard a lot of problems. They have great finders, good insides and at least for me, over seven or eight years did not give me a problem. I used primarily a T and an L, early models that fit my needs.
B2 (;->
Stepping back to the Bessa conversations, they are fine cameras. As well built as a ZI or a Leica, no, but they do hold up reasonable well. I looked at the price difference and said that over 15 years I could buy a different Bessa every five years if I needed to replace it for the same cost as a new Leica.
If I look at the number of Bessas that I know are out there, the number of lurkers in the CVUG and here, I've not heard a lot of problems. They have great finders, good insides and at least for me, over seven or eight years did not give me a problem. I used primarily a T and an L, early models that fit my needs.
B2 (;->