Bessa a good first Range Finder?

Hi all,
Well, I was back in the camera shop yesterday, and had a feel of an R3A and a Nokton 1.4 40mm, it felt great in the hand, but I didn't buy as they did not move on the price as much as I hoped, so I decided to ponder it over the weekend.

A few points I noticed were:

I found focusing tricky, the area to align in the middle of the frame is quite small, and I did find it difficult to see if it was precisely in focus, maybe I'd get used to that though. Are there any other rangefinders in which that area is larger? I've got pretty much perfect eyesight, so maybe I just need to adjust to it.

The Nokton, on focusing moved very freely in one direction, and was notably stiffer the other way, is this a characteristic of the lens, or a slight fault? If it's fault, then I could use it to get a discount...

For £100 more, they had a Leica M4-P, now obviously this is all manual with no light meter, so I'd have to get a separate meter, but is that worth considering, or for a newcomer like me, is it a step too far to get a camera with no meter? The Leica is a bit more lust-worthy, but other than that, any advantages, is focusing better? I'm aware however that the R3A is probably, on paper, the better camera.

Any thoughts are welcomed.

Cheers

Garry
 
Garry, subjectively, the rangefinder patch in every RF I've looked through is about the same size. What does differ is the level of magnification delivered by the rangefinder. That varies. Some cameras offer a level of magnification of 1, like that R3, which means you see things "normal" size. Others, most, I believe, have smaller magnification factors like 0.85 or 0.72, etc. So, things you see in the finder appear smaller than they really are.

Also, as cameras age, the RF patch can fade.

My R4M has a magnification level of 0.52. I've been known to complain about focus problems, but, in truth, it's only an issue in very low lighting conditions.

Can't really push you either to the Bessa or the Leica, since so much depends on condition.
 
I see, I've read a little about the EBL of Leicas vs. the Bessas, and the Leicas seem to have often significantly longer baselines, presumably that makes the focusing easier? Maybe also, the stiffness of the Nokton I tried made a difference too though. Only thing is, as I want the very fast lens, that's going to make focusing more critical with it's narrow DOF.

If it's just a matter of becoming accustomed to the focusing, I don't mind that, I just don't want to have all my shots slight out of focus!
 
How can I check the focusing without putting a film through it? I expect that's a no-brainer for most of you here...
 
One thing I really love about the R3 is the 1:1 viewfinder. Seeing everything life size makes it much easier to shoot with both eyes open, and so keep aware of everything that's going on around me - it's pretty much a viewfinder window super-imposed on the real world. The R3A with a 40mm lens is a great street-shooter.

But, modern auto Bessa vs old unmetered Leica? That's hard. I have both (I have an M2), and if I had to keep only one camera and had to choose between the two? I'd keep the M2. But for someone new to RF photography, I'd probably think a Bessa is a better way to start - but I wouldn't be sure.
 
My head is saying Bessa, and I think it will win out, the Leica, however lovely, without a meter is not enough automation for me. It's also a little more expensive than the Bessa, and I'm already over my intended budget.

I think right now I'm pretty much set on an R3A with a 40mm Nokton 1.4. The price in the dealer, both items used is £350 for the R3A, £290 for the Nokton, I'd like to get it under £600, is that unrealistic?

The R3A appears practically perfect, but the Nokton, I'm not sure. The focus is stiffer one way than the other, is that normal? If that's a problem, then I think I can maybe request a discount...

This is in Camera Cafe in London, any other places I should look do you think?

I think this is the right set up for me, I want the fast lens for night shots, and also want to be able to experiment with Bokeh, so can't go too wide angle. So I think the R3A with longish baseline and 40mm framelines is a good match for this lens. I can get a Color Skopar for less, but it's not fast enough for me I think. If anyone has any comments on this setup, either for or against, I'd be interested to hear them...

Cheers

Garry
 
Do you think that this is indicative of a bigger problem, and I should avoid buying the lens, or simply an inconvenience and a way to get it cheaper?

Also, with the shortish baseline of the Bessa, will focusing a fast lens like that be a problem compared to a Leica, with a longer EBL?
 
Pretty sure you can find lots of posts around here saying good things about all Bessas and the Nokton 40mm, too.

I bought an R4M a couple of years ago as my introduction to rangefinders. I use it with 21, 28 and 50 lenses. The more I use it the more I like it. Later, I picked up an M3 and, frankly, the Bessa is more comfortable in use. Is it built like a Leica? No, but it's built well enough to last a long time in the hands of a careful user. I.e., pretty much like every other non-Leica camera every built.

If you think the hardware you're looking at in that shop is up to snuff, go for it. If they don't offer a warranty or a return policy up front, ask for a full refund for mechanical or optical problems for up to 7 days after purchase. Then, go run a lot of film through it.
 
Thanks for the advice, I think I'll try to find some more shops around W1 in London and see if I can find a better deal, but I think the R3A / Nokton combo will be difficult to beat. I found focusing tricky, but maybe it's not the EBL at fault, but my ability to use it, and I'll just get used to it over time.
 
I picked up a Bessa R2 and a Nokton 40/1.4 from the Camera Cafe (Aperture Photographic) on Saturday - there were two Noktons, I think I must have taken the good one (boxed with a boxed hood for £300). Focusing is perfectly smooth both ways. Been very happy with the camera/lens combo, it's re-invigorated me with photographic excitement. My Pentax SLR was getting a bit boring.

Sorry about that :p
 
One thing to chant to yourself before every shot if you're coming from a DSLR is focus-focus-focus. I've had a few brain farts where I have totally forgotten to focus, never happened to me on a film SLR. I think the rangefinder is making me concentrate more on the scene than ever before, and it's easy to miss the focus patch. :)
 
one factor that hasn't been mentioned as much in this thread about the bessa is that they are affordable brand new, which is a huge advantage, both for knowing that you are the only person that might have screwed it up, but because of the manufacturer's warranty. if there is any way you can afford it or stand to wait until you have socked away a bit more loot, buying a brand new one is, imho, the way to go.
 
Well, the 40mm Nokton is gone, but the shop in question has a 50mm 1.5 Nokton too, but at £350, I'm not sure it's good value, the 40mm Nokton was £310, and brand new, it's a more expensive lens.

Glad to hear any thoughts on this, I'm happy with the 50mm as well as 40mm, a bit slower, but I assume being a little less wide angle, bokeh can be had at a shorter distance? Bokeh is something I want to play around with, so that's a positive as far as I am concerned.

Cheers

Garry
 
Excellent, I'll check them out. Thanks. The R3A body is a bit pricey by comparison though, but I could maybe get that in the UK... Do you know of any other dealers I should check out?

Thanks

Garry
 
Merkin said:
one factor that hasn't been mentioned as much in this thread about the bessa is that they are affordable brand new, which is a huge advantage, both for knowing that you are the only person that might have screwed it up, but because of the manufacturer's warranty. if there is any way you can afford it or stand to wait until you have socked away a bit more loot, buying a brand new one is, imho, the way to go.
Click to expand...

A very good point. I was lucky enough some years back when I was part of a DINK releationship to afford to new Leicas. It was wonderful to have that sort of feeling. I have purchased Bessas new and used and had great luck with all of them. The observation of reasonable care I believe is 1000% spot on.

I would recomend a Bessa to anyone wanting to start out in Analog RF photography.

B2 (;->
 
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