clayne
shoot film or die
aizan said:
Whatever dawg!
50/month is still surprising in itself. That's 600 a year. Still better than 0 a year, though.
Nikon was making 200 F6s per month in October 2007. They originally planned to make 5,000 per month.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
If a company like Nikon can only sell fifty F6s per month I have to wonder how many film cameras Leica are selling ... it may be more due the man jewelery factor though I guess! 
Nikon need to make the F6 more desirable ... or release the SP rangefinder again.
Nikon need to make the F6 more desirable ... or release the SP rangefinder again.
clayne
shoot film or die
Yeah, that's less surprising though, being 5-6 years ago. Even then I'd figure out of the various film bodies least demanded it would be industrial grade 10fps SLRs with full matrix metering, yadda yadda. Not exactly a niche market there (or maybe a very niche market). The fact that they're making 50 month means someone is buying them. I wouldn't mind an F5 or F6 - although I completely do not need it.
If we added 50 film shooters a month to RFF, the world would be a better place.
Spicy
Well-known
50/mo is mightily impressive, considering that I'm sure most people who would be inclined to use them would have bought them when they were recently released...
Shame about the -A models, though. Maybe too much to hope that they have a new replacement coming out soon, heh? I think the mechanical stuff being preferred is likely a big factor in their discontinuation (along with the ZI shared(?) shutter parts). Enough time has gone by that people have realized that dead electronics often mean dead cameras (shortage of irreplaceable parts like microchips or circuit boards). That's one of the big reasons that the mechanical cameras enjoy the faith people put in them. For example, (I'm not saying that the FE2 isn't a great camera, but) FM2s cost considerably more than their counterparts because they're fixable. If an FE2 dies from an electrical gremlin, it's not cost-effective to fix.
The younger generation has realized this from growing up with digital stuff and understand that most stuff that requires specialized circuitry has turned into a case of "throw away and replace," which is why despite the newer/final generation of AF film cameras (or most cameras that require a battery for more than just powering the meter) are now insanely cheap and crazy bargains compared to their prices when released originally. My friend and I were recently comparing depreciation, and laughing at how both of our AF film cameras (my N80 and his EOS 500n) had depreciated to virtually nothing. I forget the numbers, but he bought his camera body for $10 , compared to costing roughly $800 in modern-day USD, whereas my N80 body was $30 and cost about $900 in 2013 equivalent dollars. I haven't done a comparisons or my FM2n, but I can't imagine it possibly being less than 1/80(!!!!) of it's original purchase price. Nor have I considered depreciation on my Leica/'Blad equipment (which admittedly is steep and both were insanely expensive when new, but both have likely retained a larger proportion of their value).
Shame about the -A models, though. Maybe too much to hope that they have a new replacement coming out soon, heh? I think the mechanical stuff being preferred is likely a big factor in their discontinuation (along with the ZI shared(?) shutter parts). Enough time has gone by that people have realized that dead electronics often mean dead cameras (shortage of irreplaceable parts like microchips or circuit boards). That's one of the big reasons that the mechanical cameras enjoy the faith people put in them. For example, (I'm not saying that the FE2 isn't a great camera, but) FM2s cost considerably more than their counterparts because they're fixable. If an FE2 dies from an electrical gremlin, it's not cost-effective to fix.
The younger generation has realized this from growing up with digital stuff and understand that most stuff that requires specialized circuitry has turned into a case of "throw away and replace," which is why despite the newer/final generation of AF film cameras (or most cameras that require a battery for more than just powering the meter) are now insanely cheap and crazy bargains compared to their prices when released originally. My friend and I were recently comparing depreciation, and laughing at how both of our AF film cameras (my N80 and his EOS 500n) had depreciated to virtually nothing. I forget the numbers, but he bought his camera body for $10 , compared to costing roughly $800 in modern-day USD, whereas my N80 body was $30 and cost about $900 in 2013 equivalent dollars. I haven't done a comparisons or my FM2n, but I can't imagine it possibly being less than 1/80(!!!!) of it's original purchase price. Nor have I considered depreciation on my Leica/'Blad equipment (which admittedly is steep and both were insanely expensive when new, but both have likely retained a larger proportion of their value).
c.poulton
Well-known
This is sad news - the Bessa R3A was my first 'real' RF camera (not counting my Yashica GT) and really got me into Rangefinders in a big way. Unfortunately I sold it a few years ago to fund my M2....
Not sure what the future holds for new film cameras - yes there are plenty secondhand cameras about but these will not last forever (I'm talking years now) and it's nice to hold a brand new camera in your hands knowing that any future marks, scrapes, dirt etc is exclusively your own making!
I do see Cosina stopping production of all cameras to concentrate solely on lenses - in fact I wouldn't be surprised if they massively reduced their portfolio of M compatible lenses and concentrated their core production on CSC mounts as this appears to be where the market is now. (With the price of the Leica M so high, if you can afford to buy the body, you are sure to be able to afford Leica glass!)
Not sure what the future holds for new film cameras - yes there are plenty secondhand cameras about but these will not last forever (I'm talking years now) and it's nice to hold a brand new camera in your hands knowing that any future marks, scrapes, dirt etc is exclusively your own making!
I do see Cosina stopping production of all cameras to concentrate solely on lenses - in fact I wouldn't be surprised if they massively reduced their portfolio of M compatible lenses and concentrated their core production on CSC mounts as this appears to be where the market is now. (With the price of the Leica M so high, if you can afford to buy the body, you are sure to be able to afford Leica glass!)
thegman
Veteran
Well, I hope Cosina stay in the film camera business, they keep prices reasonable and show a lot more innovative thought than most (21mm framelines built in).
ruby.monkey
Veteran
If a company like Nikon can only sell fifty F6s per month I have to wonder how many film cameras Leica are selling ... it may be more due the man jewelery factor though I guess!
Nikon need to make the F6 more desirable ... or release the SP rangefinder again.
Well, the digital equivalent of an F6 (the D700) costs a reasonable $1500 or so; the digital equivalent of an M7 costs yer firstborn child. Not surprising that the M7 seems like a bargain in comparison.
Perhaps I'll grab myself an R3A for old times' sake.
Snapper_uk
Well-known
This is the news I've been dreading.
I've had my R2a for almost 10 years now, love it and use it constantly still. So much so I added an R4a to it a few years ago, but now it seems I won't be able to replace them new if something should happen to them.
I've just had a look on the Robert White site and see that they've dropped the price of Bessas by £200! Unfortunately for me there's no R2a or R3a on there anymore.
Does anyone know of anywhere in the UK or EU (outside of ebay) that sells new Bessas?
With the demise of the Zeiss Ikon, Hassleblad V system and now the Bessa A, it's been a bad year for film. All that's needed now is for Mamiya to discontinue the 7II...
I've had my R2a for almost 10 years now, love it and use it constantly still. So much so I added an R4a to it a few years ago, but now it seems I won't be able to replace them new if something should happen to them.
I've just had a look on the Robert White site and see that they've dropped the price of Bessas by £200! Unfortunately for me there's no R2a or R3a on there anymore.
Does anyone know of anywhere in the UK or EU (outside of ebay) that sells new Bessas?
With the demise of the Zeiss Ikon, Hassleblad V system and now the Bessa A, it's been a bad year for film. All that's needed now is for Mamiya to discontinue the 7II...
msbarnes
Well-known
Not that it really matters or anything but isn't the digital equivalent of the F6 the D3 line (and the F100 the D700)? But I see your point exactly. haha
jarski
Veteran
sad news yes, but I bet cry will be louder the M series follows. Leica probably will remain longest living dinosaur with MP.
Jim-st
Well-known
Ffordes have the full range new and some 2nd hand - haven't cut their prices, though
jarski
Veteran
Bobfrance
Over Exposed
I assumed they already had!
It's quite nice to know I'm shooting an in-production camera for a change. Not that it would make any real difference to me if they stop.
I agree that medium format will be the last bastion of film as IMHO there isn't a satisfactory digital substitute and I can't see anybody producing a 6x7 48bit sensor any time soon.
.
ruby.monkey
Veteran
I don't really think so - I always saw the D3 as the successor to the F5 (pro-camera-cum-melee-weapon), the D700 following the F6 (top-end enthusiast model), and the D200 taking over the F100's role (for enthusiasts without a trust fund).
But I could very well be wrong.
Spicy
Well-known
I thought the D3 was literally an F6 with digital sensor crammed in... Or the F6 was a D3 with all the digital imaging stuff stripped and replaced with film drivetrain. I may be mistaken, but I remember reading somewhere that they were developed in tandem with the idea that they were to be semi-modular.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
There's a very good interview with the designer of the F6 somewhere on the web and from what I gather the F6 was a progression from the F5 with the pork removed.
Back to the subject at hand ... I wonder how the Bessa lll will fare in the long term?
Bobfrance
Over Exposed
thegman
Veteran
The good thing at least about film cameras is that they can be put together with quite rudimentary manufacturing techniques. For example, cameras like Fotoman, Dayi, etc. are basically large format lenses on a light-tight back. It's not suitable for everyone, but at least it's possible to make film cameras in very small numbers, with simple machinery.
kshapero
South Florida Man
As long as film cameras can be fixed (and that should be forever), there will always be film cameras.