Schlapp
Well-known
Development. Make sure you bash the tank after inverting. They look like air bubbles to me
Buster 6X6
Member
In previous thread I should have used word lens shade instead compendium. I shot two more rolls of film and the same happened again. I guess from now on I will have to use my 6X9 back for my Crown Graphic.
Greg
Greg
Buster 6X6
Member
I always bash the tank after every agitation.Schlapp said:
I agree with you. When I developed first roll of film I was thinking that maybe some residue from Kodak Photo-flo which I use after I wash the film. I rinsed the dev. tank for a long time and wiped it clean. I also made sure the plastic developing spool was rinsed throughly and wiped clean . Spooling the film in I was careful not to touch the film except at the beginning of the roll.
Greg
chippy
foo was here
Buster I guess you are saying that the coating must be missing off the lens to cause lens flare?? because with lens shade attatched it doesnt happen?
it does sound kinda wierd that it would only flare along the bottom of neg!
jurgen does not as far as i know run film through his cameras he sells as a test to see if they are ok (it would be costly for him)...check out the pic attatched, if he did then this would not be sent out (not my camera--hmm well it was origonally.... i sent it back because it needed new bellows (pinholes), this is the same camera someone else purchased off ebay after new bellows) i am not sure but i would think he would have remedied this camera for the new client.
i can only speak from my own experiance with him and i happen to have placed a large order with in the past for multiple cameras not just 3 or 4--got discount! and almost every one had/has some significanrt problem evident at first glance. frozen rangefinder, the list goes on....he did send me the stuff to fix them and in this case he gave me a replacement (with more problems unfortunately) after much discussion. which of course i appreciated
the scary thing is after seeing your post is i havnt run film yet through all of them yet...so i hope there are no other problems as no doubt once it too far down the track all thing are lost
in my experiance with him if you can identify the problem (and there in lyes the crux!) and it is his fault he will fix it even if it costs him money to do so...he did with me although i did get stung on return shipping he said he would pay for
i wish you could positively rule out developing failure ..no doubt it is getting costly to you with film and devel costs. but you sound like me and would not contemplate reselling a camera not working so it is a considerable amount to loose...perhaps you could put some film through it and get it developed at the lab to rule yourself out of the equastion. if done in a reasonable time frame jurgen could be convinced to replace the camera if it is still crook
it does sound kinda wierd that it would only flare along the bottom of neg!
jurgen does not as far as i know run film through his cameras he sells as a test to see if they are ok (it would be costly for him)...check out the pic attatched, if he did then this would not be sent out (not my camera--hmm well it was origonally.... i sent it back because it needed new bellows (pinholes), this is the same camera someone else purchased off ebay after new bellows) i am not sure but i would think he would have remedied this camera for the new client.
i can only speak from my own experiance with him and i happen to have placed a large order with in the past for multiple cameras not just 3 or 4--got discount! and almost every one had/has some significanrt problem evident at first glance. frozen rangefinder, the list goes on....he did send me the stuff to fix them and in this case he gave me a replacement (with more problems unfortunately) after much discussion. which of course i appreciated
the scary thing is after seeing your post is i havnt run film yet through all of them yet...so i hope there are no other problems as no doubt once it too far down the track all thing are lost
in my experiance with him if you can identify the problem (and there in lyes the crux!) and it is his fault he will fix it even if it costs him money to do so...he did with me although i did get stung on return shipping he said he would pay for
i wish you could positively rule out developing failure ..no doubt it is getting costly to you with film and devel costs. but you sound like me and would not contemplate reselling a camera not working so it is a considerable amount to loose...perhaps you could put some film through it and get it developed at the lab to rule yourself out of the equastion. if done in a reasonable time frame jurgen could be convinced to replace the camera if it is still crook
Attachments
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wallace
Well-known
What Andrew writes is exactly what happened to me!
Mr. Kreckel is a retired gun builder. He should stay away from cameras.
Mr. Kreckel is a retired gun builder. He should stay away from cameras.
Solinar
Analog Preferred
It's interesting to see my first name in the two previous posts.
Now with regards to the "cult" of Juergen - his cameras are over priced and his work isn't perfect. I know the latter, because my work is less than perfect. There are too few "recently serviced" medium format folders for the number of would be buyers on eBay. Hence, an Agfa Record III with "red window" film winding, uncoupled RF and formerly serviced by Juergen sold for $355.00 last Monday on eBay.
I've been servicing and restoring my own folders for seven years - As simple as these cameras seem to be, there are multiple opportunities to not see possible problems upon reassembly. - You guys are correct. - Running a roll of film through the camera is real test.
As to whether Juergan should be restoring old medium format folders, well I'm sure that he does them more good than harm. - but I doubt that he has a rigorous QC system and enough "ersatz" spare parts in stock to make everyone of them perfect in one pass. - I noticed that he does mix and match parts. - If he film tested each camera after assembly and just developed the negs, he'd be doing both the user and himself a needed service.
Now with regards to the "cult" of Juergen - his cameras are over priced and his work isn't perfect. I know the latter, because my work is less than perfect. There are too few "recently serviced" medium format folders for the number of would be buyers on eBay. Hence, an Agfa Record III with "red window" film winding, uncoupled RF and formerly serviced by Juergen sold for $355.00 last Monday on eBay.
I've been servicing and restoring my own folders for seven years - As simple as these cameras seem to be, there are multiple opportunities to not see possible problems upon reassembly. - You guys are correct. - Running a roll of film through the camera is real test.
As to whether Juergan should be restoring old medium format folders, well I'm sure that he does them more good than harm. - but I doubt that he has a rigorous QC system and enough "ersatz" spare parts in stock to make everyone of them perfect in one pass. - I noticed that he does mix and match parts. - If he film tested each camera after assembly and just developed the negs, he'd be doing both the user and himself a needed service.
chippy
foo was here
Solinar i was kinda wondering what you meant at first saying you saw your name twice!!...i thought perhaps you must of been Mr Kreckel lol,,,,until i saw your signiture,,snap! and almost written the same way too..i dont know if they still do say it but it used to be South Australia and Texas were sister states via the govenment and such. apparently it was said that sth aussies are the only people that talk with a stronger accent than texans, but i doubt that!! although we do have better hats!
whilst i would not wish to turn it into a thread of naming the problems a camera restorer overlooks, because as you say probably more good is done than bad, and who would people turn to as there doesnt seem to be many people repairing the classics. no doubt running a film through would help. did the old camera shops/repair people do that ? i dont know...but egads! some of the things wrong are so obvious it shoudnt get to the stage of running film through it.
i find it hard to beleive it is him doing all the repairs based on the good words and reputation that is voiced everywhere. I was honestly starting to think that perhaps he has others doing them for him. wondering whether perhaps his workload is too great. Otherwise i could only think the care factor must of disappeared. One feels that if they were to say anything against him then they would be shot down (just like Jesse James, coundt resist LOL)...i mean has anyone noticed that other people are reselling their cameras that he sold to them and using his name as a marketing tool...as a good thing!!!
whilst i would not wish to turn it into a thread of naming the problems a camera restorer overlooks, because as you say probably more good is done than bad, and who would people turn to as there doesnt seem to be many people repairing the classics. no doubt running a film through would help. did the old camera shops/repair people do that ? i dont know...but egads! some of the things wrong are so obvious it shoudnt get to the stage of running film through it.
i find it hard to beleive it is him doing all the repairs based on the good words and reputation that is voiced everywhere. I was honestly starting to think that perhaps he has others doing them for him. wondering whether perhaps his workload is too great. Otherwise i could only think the care factor must of disappeared. One feels that if they were to say anything against him then they would be shot down (just like Jesse James, coundt resist LOL)...i mean has anyone noticed that other people are reselling their cameras that he sold to them and using his name as a marketing tool...as a good thing!!!
Buster 6X6
Member
It happens with lens hood on or off. As I said I bought another Bessa I from Australia with Veskar 4.5 lens and I ran film through it .Film is OK when developed from that camera. That camera is in much better shape then Jurgens and I paid 1/3 of the price ($220) for his. Otherwise the lens is tack sharp but makes negatives unusable. I can't even sell it I would not feel good offering it to somebody with this kind of malfunction. Two years ago I bought Vito II and it has wonderful conrasty color Scopar lens that's why I ordered my Bessa I with color Scopar lens. What a bummer.
Greg
Greg
Solinar
Analog Preferred
Sorry we hijacked your thread. The one thing I didn't say in my above post is that folders are usually user repairable - with certain caveats such as tools, mechanical ability with the light touch and a learning curve that can be helped a bit by Dr. Google.
On yours - have you gone in to a darkened closet and given the bellows a good testing by placing an electronic flash unit in the interior of the camera to look where light maybe coming in? While firing the flash unit every ten second, pay attention to the corners of the folds at all four sides, but also where the bellows meets the shutter and where the bellows are glued onto the back.
The shutter - while holding the lens up to a desk lamp - operate the shutter at all the available speeds while looking through the bellows, pay attention to whether the shutter closes normally and do the shutter blades open at all when you cock the shutter, as some do when they need servicing.
The lens - hold the shutter open on bulb and look through the lens at wide open aperture with a very strong back light - like a halogen - on the other side. Do this from both the front and the back of the camera. You should be looking for haze which results in flare.
Now that you have two Bessas - give the back of the cameras a real close look over around the edges where the door closes to see how well the align when closing the rear door. Is there a felt seal missing from the outer edge of the body on the one from Juergen? Do the two ruby windows seal up as they should? Do they close smoothly? You check this by again using a flash or very strong desk lamp and you may need to remove the film pressure plate.
All the above info is available on the web by mining google not just for your folder but other makes as well, especially Agfa.
Hope this helps and all the best from the sister city of Adelaide - Austin, TX
http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/siscity/adelaide_2.htm
On yours - have you gone in to a darkened closet and given the bellows a good testing by placing an electronic flash unit in the interior of the camera to look where light maybe coming in? While firing the flash unit every ten second, pay attention to the corners of the folds at all four sides, but also where the bellows meets the shutter and where the bellows are glued onto the back.
The shutter - while holding the lens up to a desk lamp - operate the shutter at all the available speeds while looking through the bellows, pay attention to whether the shutter closes normally and do the shutter blades open at all when you cock the shutter, as some do when they need servicing.
The lens - hold the shutter open on bulb and look through the lens at wide open aperture with a very strong back light - like a halogen - on the other side. Do this from both the front and the back of the camera. You should be looking for haze which results in flare.
Now that you have two Bessas - give the back of the cameras a real close look over around the edges where the door closes to see how well the align when closing the rear door. Is there a felt seal missing from the outer edge of the body on the one from Juergen? Do the two ruby windows seal up as they should? Do they close smoothly? You check this by again using a flash or very strong desk lamp and you may need to remove the film pressure plate.
All the above info is available on the web by mining google not just for your folder but other makes as well, especially Agfa.
Hope this helps and all the best from the sister city of Adelaide - Austin, TX
http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/siscity/adelaide_2.htm
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P
polaski
Guest
e-mail Jurgen and include a link to this post. I can't believe he won't stand behind his work, unless of course he listed the camera as-is.
chippy
foo was here
polaski said:
he says he does and as i said before he did with me, even though unfortuately the relacement camera had its own problems, worse actually!. however i am not sure that if the lenses have been removed and replaced by Greg, Jurgen would feel a 100% inclined to. i really think a film developed at the lab would have ruled out any question whether it a developing problem, thus only leaving the camera at fault and leaving Jurgen with little reason or excuse not to stand by his camera and fix it.
i havnt much experiance with seeing the effects of a lens with haze or many other problems for that matter, so feel free to inform me. but i dont see how the results would turn up routinley along the edge of the neg but in a random inconsistant pattern? i am thinking if it was a rear element then wouldnt the blotches be in the same place each time and if the front lens then considering the front lens is rotated with focus woulnt it be in diferent places around the neg depending on th focal distance?
also i know Greg has said he performs the same proceedure each time with developing but he has also said he has had some (at least one) film with no blotches at all. and forgive me Greg as i am not trying to denigh your abilities with developing. however after looking closely at the negs and the blotches it is noticable in a few places that the blotches run out of the picture into the masked area! surely that cant indicate lens or even bellows (i did noticed after looking closely; there does seem to be 4 small fluffy bits of bellows hanging down mid way between the rear and front, on the top right if you look at the picture with the back open but i am not convinced this is the problem, though that was my first thought)
wouldnt the sample negs shown most likely indicate a film or developing problem. if it had anything to do with the camera then it would be a guess that it is a substance such as oil mentioned earlier or even rust getting on the film, not that any rust is apparent from the photos.
Hey Andrew an incredible suprise to see that link...just something i remember from years ago, i never suspected it would be on the net
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Buster 6X6
Member
Thanks both Andrews.It makes sense what you are saying. It should be a developing problem it is inconsistent it does not repeat it self. And I checked camera over and over again checked the lens it has no haze or obstruction in the light path.Only one thing I did not try is use S/S developing tank with S/S spool (They are pain to load even with the guide). Maybe film is touching in the plastic spool?creating hot spots. That would explain being random. I'll figure it out.
Greg
Greg
Buster 6X6
Member
I told him I wanted Bessa I with Color Skopar lens, and I send him my money. I don't know, first film I ran through the camera made 8 negatives unusable it had a light leak in the spooling chamber. I e-mailed him but he was not to receptive to suggest what could be wrong. I have a little LED light it is very powerful and like a point. checked in the darkroom and I found rivet missing between bellows and spooling chamber. I installed little screw and solved that problem. He did not suggest for me to send camera back. It felt like don't bother me. He never checked back to see if I resolved the problem. I would have not gone to the INTERNET if I had some kind response from him. I sure won't be buying another camera from him or recommend his business to anyone else.polaski said:
Greg
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FallisPhoto
Veteran
chippy said:
It would if it was the whole lens and shutter that is misaligned instead of just one element. I was thinking "What if something got lodged between the shutter and the front standard, like an extra fold of bellows material, so the lens wasn't sitting true to the film plane?"
Anyway, light leaks cause dark blotches. White blotches are because either light isn't getting to the negative there or developer isn't getting to it.
FallisPhoto
Veteran
Just had another thought. No offense, but have you checked for old dried fixer residue on your reels? I suppose it is also possible that your developing tank could have a leak.
Buster 6X6
Member
No offense taken. I always take them apart and rinse the reels with water. I never used a brush? maybe I should but still does not explain when I shut with my Blad I develop the film in the same tank. Go figure. But thinking about it most likely is film touching it self on the reel and concentrating developer or fixer and over developing the negative. Or bubbles created by Photo-flo which was not riced out?
Greg
Greg
chippy
foo was here
the money you paid corresponds with his web page prices for a bessa I w/color scopar not the c/vaska you received which he markets/lists at $130. this argument alone i would think is reasonable grounds for a replacement.
have you got copies of the emails detailing what you ordered, if so send them to him underlining the relavent parts. there does not appear anything special with the camera you recieved to justify a higher price eg. mint or near mint ect and it has not had new bellows installed. Moreover his web page says that the priced include the CLA and if the voightlanders need new bellows then the price will be higher
giving him the premature benifit of doubt,, perhaps he sent you a Vaska by mistake instead of Scopar!!! hehe hmm well he might of...
have you got copies of the emails detailing what you ordered, if so send them to him underlining the relavent parts. there does not appear anything special with the camera you recieved to justify a higher price eg. mint or near mint ect and it has not had new bellows installed. Moreover his web page says that the priced include the CLA and if the voightlanders need new bellows then the price will be higher
giving him the premature benifit of doubt,, perhaps he sent you a Vaska by mistake instead of Scopar!!! hehe hmm well he might of...
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Silva Lining
CanoHasseLeica
Hello,
Looking at your negatives I would conclude that that this problem is almost certainly a development problem. As was mentioned earlier it looks like bubbles in the tank preventing equal chemical access to the film. You can also see that the effect falls outside of the area exposed by the camera, which suggests an out-of-camera effect.
It's odd that you should not have the same issues with films developed from your 'blad though. I do have a Bessa 1, but not a 'blad. Is there much difference in the way the exposed film is spooled in use - I am thinking whether this might cause it to wind onto the developing reel differently.....(clutching at straws a bit
)
Looking at your negatives I would conclude that that this problem is almost certainly a development problem. As was mentioned earlier it looks like bubbles in the tank preventing equal chemical access to the film. You can also see that the effect falls outside of the area exposed by the camera, which suggests an out-of-camera effect.
It's odd that you should not have the same issues with films developed from your 'blad though. I do have a Bessa 1, but not a 'blad. Is there much difference in the way the exposed film is spooled in use - I am thinking whether this might cause it to wind onto the developing reel differently.....(clutching at straws a bit
)
Buster 6X6
Member
As I said before I did swap lenses from one camera to the other just to prove that it was not a camera problem like bellows. I did not change lens but lens and shutter together. Australian body with Color Skopar blotches appear Jurgens body with Vaskar lens no blotches. I do not know how many variables I have introduced to the equation. I'll keep you posted as I shoot more film.
Greg
Greg
chippy
foo was here
ahh , sorry , my mistake. for some reason i got it mixed up and i thought you had purchased the Bessa w/Vaska from Jurgen. too many late nights no doubt !!