Bessa IV - 6x9 or 6x12

[thegman]

It's been a long time since I have started this wishful thinking thread. And I still think that 6x12 folding camera would be great to have.

All better 6x12 that are out there (Linhof, Horseman) are big, heavy, bulky and cost €2500+ with one lens and have no rangefinder.

There are the DAYI cameras for 6x12 for around £600 minus a lens, no range finder, but does have ground glass if scale focusing is not good enough. I expect they could put one together for you with lens for about £1000. They also have a shift ability which may come in handy depending on what you're shooting.

 

[louisb]

Did I already vote on this?

Oh my, a Bessa IV 6x9 with a 50mm lens? I would basically sell my kidney for one of those. You never know with Voigtlander, eh?

LouisB

 

[citizen99]

... Oh my, a Bessa IV 6x9 with a 50mm lens? I would basically sell my kidney for one of those. You never know with Voigtlander, eh?

LouisB

That would be awesome!

 

[citizen99]

It seems a 6x9 with 65mm lens might satisfy most of us.

At the other end of the cost scale, I have experimented with this, which with a 65mm (non-Super-)Angulon was on the limit before the length-wise mounted fold-down 'door' of the 6x9 would have caused vignetting (and by the way you wouldn't be able to close the door on a Super Angulon class lens anyway) .

 

[citizen99]

... Most old 120 folders except the Makinas are worthless for enlargement: they were meant for contact printing. Hence the destruction of resolution by front cell focusing and lack of film flatness. Finding a 6x9 plate camera with a roll adapter is a solution out, but most lack rangefinders.

If by 'most' you mean what were family snapshot market cameras. Some other old ones can still be pretty good, I've had nice 6"x9" prints from the old Bessa Rangefinder, and the scanned files still look good blown up even more on the PC monitor screen .

 

[Matus]

So, I am starting to wonder ... where is the Bessa IV?

But seriously - It would be so great to have an RF coupled 6x12 with SOME decent lens and AE ...

 

[thegman]

If by 'most' you mean what were family snapshot market cameras. Some other old ones can still be pretty good, I've had nice 6"x9" prints from the old Bessa Rangefinder, and the scanned files still look good blown up even more on the PC monitor screen .

Completely agree, I came across this thread here:

http://forum.mflenses.com/bessa-ii-color-skopar-6x9-fuji-provia-100-epson-v500-t41488.html

Using a "cheap" scanner, I think the Bessa II shows buckets of resolution.

 

[citizen99]

If by 'most' you mean what were family snapshot market cameras. Some other old ones can still be pretty good, I've had nice 6"x9" prints from the old Bessa Rangefinder, and the scanned files still look good blown up even more on the PC monitor screen .

Attila's pictures of Budapest are awesome. For a different sort of scene, this page starts in the middle of a set from my Bessa Rangefinder, which is the 'ancestor' of the Bessa II. This one has the Heliar, it also came with the Skopar and Helomar which are also excellent lenses .

 

[Texsport]

As Frank noted, in 6x12 there's the Linhof; and also the Horseman, Dayi, Gaoersi and Fotoman offerings, at various quality, capability and price levels. And as nice as it is, the GSW690 will not give me the perspective that a 65mm lens on a 6x12 will give.

So in the meantime it's back to making do with a wide lens on the dSLR, and cropping to 2:1. And dreaming of doing this with film.

But a 50mm of a Fuji 6X9 or a 47mm on a Horseman 6X12 are available, and both give wider and taller views.

Texsport

 

[alienmeatsack]

This thread is interesting since it pretty much is filled with people wishing for something that is similar to what Lomography created with their Belair X 6-12 recently. I just suspect that the quality folks here are looking for is aimed a bit higher then the Belair can produce.

But, it pretty much does what this thread discuses... a folding 6x9 and 6x12 camera with 58mm and 90mm lenses with optional (overpriced) glass lenses for better image quality, built in metering and aperture priority shooting.

Since I have one of the Belairs already, this "Bessa IV" would have to be really spectacular for me to take interest at an affordable price point.

But I'd certainly be interested... especially if it would be capable of rendering quality via the lens out to 12" wide without the blur/focus falloff the Belair's plastic lenses has.

I'd say for my vote, I'd say I'd like to see it do both, but 6x12 would be my preference. And I'd like to see a lens that "works" well for realistic wide shots. It feels to me like the 90mm on the Belair is the closest to that for that camera but I do like the idea of a wider one that doesn't look stretched or distorted, so maybe the 65mm for this thread's camera would be nice.

I'd also like it to have more control over aperture and shutter speeds then the Belair has. f/8 and f/11 just are not enough, and 1/500th is not fast enough in bright sunlight even with 50 or 100 film here in oklahoma during bright days.

Mmmmm wide shots... ::drool::

 

[citizen99]

At the other end of the cost scale, I have experimented with this, which with a 65mm (non-Super-)Angulon was on the limit before the length-wise mounted fold-down 'door' of the 6x9 would have caused vignetting (and by the way you wouldn't be able to close the door on a Super Angulon class lens anyway) .

I mentioned this because it brings out some of the design constraints on a 'Bessa format heritage' wide angle folder. For an ultra-wide 6x9 or a 6x12, a single folding door would not be practicable; it might be worth looking at a double 'barn door' layout like the Voigtlander Vitessa. But there would still be this issue to consider - how compact can one make a 'modern-grade' wide angle lens ?

So as pointed out just above,

This thread is interesting since it pretty much is filled with people wishing for something that is similar to what Lomography created with their Belair X 6-12 recently. I just suspect that the quality folks here are looking for is aimed a bit higher then the Belair can produce.
...

we would be likely to be looking at a 'professional grade' strut camera But then, setting aside for a moment the question of brand name ownership, it would make more sense to call it a Makina .

 

[kram]

Any chance of a 4x5, with range finder and a wideish lens (127mm), with range finder and meter. Could always slap on a 6x12, 6x9 back. People are buying old polaroid conversions which are quite large. Would not be a big seller though, or would people be tempted?

 

[GaryLH]

Any chance of a 4x5, with range finder and a wideish lens (127mm), with range finder and meter. Could always slap on a 6x12, 6x9 back. People are buying old polaroid conversions which are quite large. Would not be a big seller though, or would people be tempted?

U can already do that w/ a rf 4x5 like linhof, crown or speed graphic, etc. using a 6z12 multi format roll film back. But just like the Polaroid versions a big weight penalty compared to the Bessa. Then there is also the Brooke's veriwide or the linhof version.

Gary

 

[kram]

Not quite. No meter, no viewfinder, fairly heavy, lots of movements, changable lens. Thinking more like a big version of the bessa 3. We can dream.

 

[GaryLH]

Not quite. No meter, no viewfinder, fairly heavy, lots of movements, changable lens. Thinking more like a big version of the bessa 3. We can dream.

Linhof and graphic had viewfinder and interchangeable lenses, plus viewfinder masks for the lenses they supported. The Linhof had dedicated rf cams ground specifically for the lenses as well as opposed to the graphic which need to be re-adjusted for lens used.

Meter or shutter automation in that type of camera was never in the cards given the market segment it was designed for.

A beefed up Bessa in that form factor would be very heavy as well. So a dedicated big format (4x5) w/ roll film back option, fixed focal length, shutter automation camera is what u are dreaming of. Not as heavy as what already exist biggest diff is shutter automation or a built in meter then..

I could be wrong, but maybe a small market for it. I think watching how the travel wide 4x5 does maybe an indication of potential of such a camera.

Gary

 

[kram]

[So a dedicated big format (4x5) w/ roll film back option, fixed focal length, shutter automation camera is what u are dreaming of. Not as heavy as what already exist biggest diff is shutter automation or a built in meter then..

I could be wrong, but maybe a small market for it. I think watching how the travel wide 4x5 does maybe an indication of potential of such a camera.
/QUOTE] That's it! It would still weigh 1.5 -2kg, but would be more compact. Imagine the Bessa 3 up sized with a 4x5 back. Could have a bit of shift, but to keep it good quality and compact adding slight tilt/swing etc. would defeat the object of a light(ish) fold-able 4x5. I normally only take 3-4 dark slides out with me at anyone time, not sure about othe people.

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

6 x 9 wide i.e. 50mm

 

[kram]

If thd lens were a little faster, I think they would have a more sort after product. A f2.8 80-110mm lens would make it more attractive than the oder cameras. A 50mm f4 would be fastcor this format. As cosina make fast lens for 35mm, it should be do able. My reasoning, secondhand Makina 67 (f2.8) sell for more than the Bessa iii with its f3.5 lens. A 6x9 should be able to be accommodated in the same body as the Bessa iii, which would be a cost saving for cosina.

 

[Apostrophe]

I've been wondering... Do we have any reason to believe that Fuji might actually design and manufacture a follow-up to the GF670 - a GF690 or a Bessa IV? Or are we just hoping and dreaming? Has anyone actually heard anything? Are there rumors or comments from the company?

 

[Matus]

I have not heard anything directly or indirectly and frankly speaking consider such a possibility to be very low. If the GF670 is priced around 2000, a GF690 or even GF612 would probably be around 3000 and at that point there would probably be too few buyers. Just a guess of mine.

Still - I would LOVE a 6x12 flooding camera with RF and AE with say 80/4 lens. In particular after I got XPAN.