Leica LTM Bessa L or Leica If for my 21mm Color-Skopar? Help me decide!

Leica M39 screw mount bodies/lenses
WJJ3

WJJ3

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As you can see from the title, I am looking to get a LTM body for my CV 21mm Color Skopar.

I decided I don't really need or want a rangefinder in a dedicated body for my lens, and so I'm looking at either the Bessa L or the Leica If.

Now I realize these are two different cameras with two different price tags, but these are pretty much the two that I have narrowed it down to.

Regardless of price, can anyone recommend one over the other? Recommend a different LTM body over these two?

Thanks in advance!
~W
 
I choose the L.

*It's lightweight and durable as can be.
*Has a meter for those times you want one which may not be often but... it's there when you do!
*Has High tech Modern advancements like ........a hinged film door!! ;)
* Has a a shutter that with 1/2000 of a sec and metal curtains you can not pinhole .

Yes true... it's not quite as quiet a Leica. But you can likely find one in nice condition for under $100 if you are patient.

I love the ability to meter through the lens. It's a good meter too and the only thing this body requires a battery for.
 
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I had an M4P that I think would have been ideal for an ultrawide like the CV 21. It is sturdy, compact and reliable. In camera metering with an ultrawide is difficult because the light can be coming from anywhere and not likely to match the meter's pattern. And with a mounted viewfinder - it's one badass looking camera!
 
I went with the Bessa L for my CV21 for all the reasons above.
The main advantage for me is that its light .
Stick it in the bag and forget it.
 
Bessa T.

I know you said you don't want a rangefinder, but the T adds that little bit of future-proofing in a very unobtrusive way, while still keeping the L's lightness and compact design.
 
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Bessa L without question. Loved my Bessa L+15mm CV combo. I can't beleive you are even considering that fussy Leica over it
 
I didn't find L to be durable at all, it is loud as well.
But they are very affordable and it is really nice to have exposure meter on exterior, plus shutter release lock.
Their price is almost equal to If CLA.
L is also much more better camera to hold for long time and or/on cold day, comparing to Barnacks.
 
Bessa L because of weight, speed of handling, built in meter, and metal shutter doesn't pin-hole.

Leica Ix (x=any version) because it's slightly smaller and a Leica.

I'd go L.
 
And once again the OP hasn't even been back to the thread (which could be a time zone thing).

I had a Bessa L and found it didn't suit me, but gosh, they're cheap, just get one and find out for yourself. Unless you overpay to begin with (or break it), you're not going to lose more than a few bucks when you sell it again. Cheapest camera rental you'll find.
 
Here is a point that may be completely bogus. I bought a IIIf to be used with the CV 21mm because I thought it would also allow for flexible use with other lenses and would hold its value for resale. I found that many of the shots with the lens had a very strong and strange kind of "vignetting": the left and right sides of the frame seemed to often have a strong light fall off - but not the upper and lower parts or corners of the frame. The situation was so bad that I sold the lens.

At the time I attributed the problem to the lens, because I have seen similar light fall-off issues in some CV 21mm photos on the web. But I also wondered if the horizontally traveling shutter in an old camera might also have played a role...what do the Leica experts here thinK? In any case, if there is any truth to this, the vertical shutter in the Voigtlander cameras may well prevent this interaction with the lens' optical characteristics.
 
rumbliegeos said:
Here is a point that may be completely bogus. I bought a IIIf to be used with the CV 21mm because I thought it would also allow for flexible use with other lenses and would hold its value for resale. I found that many of the shots with the lens had a very strong and strange kind of "vignetting": the left and right sides of the frame seemed to often have a strong light fall off - but not the upper and lower parts or corners of the frame. The situation was so bad that I sold the lens.

At the time I attributed the problem to the lens, because I have seen similar light fall-off issues in some CV 21mm photos on the web. But I also wondered if the horizontally traveling shutter in an old camera might also have played a role...what do the Leica experts here thinK? In any case, if there is any truth to this, the vertical shutter in the Voigtlander cameras may well prevent this interaction with the lens' optical characteristics.
Click to expand...

No chance that the shutter design caused your problem, although the condition of the shutter just might. Any focal-plane shutter, whether it travels horizontally or vertically, exposes the entire frame evenly if it is working correctly. It just doesn't expose it all at the same time; the reason why X-sync only works at slow speeds.

It may be that the shutter in your Leica was exposing unevenly, with a wider slit at the centre vs the edges. This would have the same effect regardless of the lens used, but maybe you have a problem like that and added to the vignetting usually experienced with such a wide lens gives you the impression that it is a problem inherent in a horizontal FP shutter. Incidentally, having BOTH edges go dark is a quite unlikely problem with a Leica shutter, but almost anything is possible in a 60 year old camera, I guess.

Cheers,
Dez
 
rumbliegeos said:
Here is a point that may be completely bogus. I bought a IIIf to be used with the CV 21mm because I thought it would also allow for flexible use with other lenses and would hold its value for resale. I found that many of the shots with the lens had a very strong and strange kind of "vignetting": the left and right sides of the frame seemed to often have a strong light fall off - but not the upper and lower parts or corners of the frame. The situation was so bad that I sold the lens.

At the time I attributed the problem to the lens, because I have seen similar light fall-off issues in some CV 21mm photos on the web. But I also wondered if the horizontally traveling shutter in an old camera might also have played a role...what do the Leica experts here thinK? In any case, if there is any truth to this, the vertical shutter in the Voigtlander cameras may well prevent this interaction with the lens' optical characteristics.
Click to expand...

Dez said:
No chance that the shutter design caused your problem, although the condition of the shutter just might. Any focal-plane shutter, whether it travels horizontally or vertically, exposes the entire frame evenly if it is working correctly. It just doesn't expose it all at the same time; the reason why X-sync only works at slow speeds.

It may be that the shutter in your Leica was exposing unevenly, with a wider slit at the centre vs the edges. This would have the same effect regardless of the lens used, but maybe you have a problem like that and added to the vignetting usually experienced with such a wide lens gives you the impression that it is a problem inherent in a horizontal FP shutter. Incidentally, having BOTH edges go dark is a quite unlikely problem with a Leica shutter, but almost anything is possible in a 60 year old camera, I guess.

Cheers,
Dez
Click to expand...

... it's the shutter I'd blame ... I don't see how it could be the lens myself
 
Sorry for my delay in getting back to this thread and thanks for all the thoughtful responses.
It seems the If doesn't get much love!
The Bessa L is the clear winner looking at the spec sheet. While I haven't handled one, I am a little concerned about reliability.
Is this concern well founded?
Also, to those who have used the L, how is the shutter button release feel? And the the shutter noise/vibration itself? Are these a deal breaker?

Thanks!
 
My vote is for the Leica Standard. Elegant, slim, compact and a joy to hold and use. I have nothing at all against Bessa, I love my R, but to walk away from one of the finest and most reliable Barnack gems in exchange for a few ounces and a swing open back is very confusing to me.

If you shoot slide film an external meter will be more accurate and estimating exposure for color or black and white negative film is not very difficult.

With your ultra-wide focus is not something you will need to worry about so everybody's favorite complaint, "squinty" range and viewfinders, is not a problem.

A well treated Leica Standard will likely outlive all of us. As nice as the Bessa cameras are I kind of doubt they are that well designed and built.
 
WJJ3 said:
Sorry for my delay in getting back to this thread and thanks for all the thoughtful responses.
It seems the If doesn't get much love!
The Bessa L is the clear winner looking at the spec sheet. While I haven't handled one, I am a little concerned about reliability.
Is this concern well founded?
Also, to those who have used the L, how is the shutter button release feel? And the the shutter noise/vibration itself? Are these a deal breaker?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

The shutter is pretty loud, with a harsh clack; that being said the release is smooth and crisp, and there's little shutter vibration.
 
WJJ3 said:
Sorry for my delay in getting back to this thread and thanks for all the thoughtful responses.
It seems the If doesn't get much love!
The Bessa L is the clear winner looking at the spec sheet. While I haven't handled one, I am a little concerned about reliability.
Is this concern well founded?
Also, to those who have used the L, how is the shutter button release feel? And the the shutter noise/vibration itself? Are these a deal breaker?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
It's OK: cheap'n'cheerful. I didn't like the plasticky feel, which is unfair, because it's the usual reliable Voigtlander chassis/shutter: only the skin (especially the back door) feels a bit flimsy (and almost certainly isn't). As others have said, they're silly-cheap: why not try one?

Cheers,

R.
 
The Bessa feels and sounds a lot less solid than a Leica, and the release button in particular is a wobbly plastic affair, but that was not why I didn't like mine. I just don't like accessory finders very much, or in fact any finder that's not where nature intended (i.e. in the top left corner). Yes, that also means I don't get along with SLRs, either. To me, image quality depends on the lens first, and on the VF experience second, and I won't put up with a VF I have to strain to use for very long. Plus, accessory finders can twist in the shoe (not likely to have disastrous effects with a 21) and are easily lost.

As others have said, you need to be careful not to fool the meter, but then again the Bessa L was specifically designed for this lens (and the 15), if memory serves. I had a 35 on mine so I can't comment. The meter annoyingly stays on only while you keep the release half-pressed, there's no delay.
 
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