Bessa R rf vs. 60s & 70s rfs...

[caffeineshutter]

Gott im Himmel.

I'm compelled to rant about the Bessa rangefinders vs. seemingly every other Japanese--made rf (the components themselves--not the cameras).

I've owned a (used) Bessa R for about a month now...and noticed tonight--shooting the moon with my Canon 100/3.5--that the rangefinder is off. It wasn't off when I purchased the Bessa a month ago.

Just for giggles, I took two other RFs outside to sight & shoot the moon: A Vivitar 35ES and a Canonet QL-17 GIII.

Neither of the aforementioned 60s-70s cameras have rf problems. This, despite the fact that I've owned the 35ES from 'new' (bought used--mint condition--at a yard sale in around 1980, in box, w/manual, flash, wrist strap, etc.) It was toted by my father to every family vacation since then, and was used for it's wider-angle lens and as a meter to augment his Nikon F with 85/1.8. In other words, it's had a lot of use, and been dropped on pavement and rocks numerous times.

It's interesting to look at the 35ES now. It's gone from 'factory sealed' to 25+ years-old, almost in front of me: It's brassing at the corners (woo! real brass!) the 'PASSED' sticker is intact but unreadable. And of course, the light seals have turned to a sickly state of mush that will need to be addressed.

In spite of all this mileage, the rangefinder needs no adjustment. It's spot on. Same with my Canonet.

WTF?

It appears that my Bessa is going to need a horizontal and vertical rf alignment. (I can no longer do this myself due to a nasty case of carpal tunnel syndrome)

That being the case: 1.) how much will a rf alignment cost me in the Boston area? and 2.) why is the Bessa's rf constructed such that it will go 'out' if you look at the freaking thing crosseyed? Arrrgh! :bang: Has anyone of the Tom Abrahamsson ilk come out with a fix or modification?

I LOVE my Bessa. But why is the rf mechanism so fragile? (FWIW, it's had the same use, and resided in the same bag as the Canonet).

 

[mike goldberg]

Hi caffeinshutter,
Former Bostonian here, and Leica M2 fan.

I'm looking for a 2nd body and thought a Bessa R might do it...
now I don't know. Send a PM to our RFF member lars. He had a great
2004 review of he Bessa R.

Good luck with yours!
mike

 

[rxmd]

2.) why is the Bessa's rf constructed such that it will go 'out' if you look at the freaking thing crosseyed? [...]

I LOVE my Bessa. But why is the rf mechanism so fragile?

I would assume that the rangefinder mechanism in an interchangeable lens camera is significantly more complicated than a mechanism in a fixed lens camera. Especially given that the Bessa's rangefinder is more complicated, but also quite a lot better than either the Canonet's or the Vivitar's; after all, it's collimated (i.e. sharply deliminated patch) and it has sharply defined, interchangeable framelines. So they are really quite different beasts.

That said, yesterday I realigned my Bessa's RF for the second time in a year, and I wish it was more stable. However, the camera did take some serious bumps over new year (amongst other things, 72 hours in a bag under my seat on a bumpy train). I don't know if a Hexar RF or Leica or Zeiss Ikon rangefinder is really that much better. This is the prime reason why I guess I won't be taking a rangefinder camera when I go on field research later this year; you can lose quite a lot of images rather easily, unless you check the alignment at the start of every roll of film.

Philipp

 

[Spyderman]

Hi,

I don't know what people do to their cameras, but after owning my Bessa for half a year I had no problems whatsoever. I bought it from a RFF member in CA, USA. It travelled half the globe and came here with misaligned RF. But that was expected - the long journey was probably tough. I calibrated it, and didn't touch it ever since.

Maybe it's easily misaligned, because the screws holding the RF lens aren't tight enough? Just a thought. As I calibrated the RF I tried to tighten the main holding screw as much as possible without damaging the screw...

But I agree with you, that it shouldn't get misaligned so easily. The plain Bessa R was just an improved Cosina body. Just Bessa L with added VF and RF. Bessa R2 was the same but with M bayonet. Finally R2a/m and R3a/m are better built, but I think the RF module is the same as in the cheaper Bessa R and R2... They definitely should improve the inner components when they improve the body and then ask such prices for the body.

 

[Solinar]

Chalk one up for the diminutive Canonet and the Cosina built Vivitar. Fixed-lens rangefinders typically use a push rod to couple the lens movement to the rangefinder apparatus.

The Bessa R RF assembly is accessible under the top cover. However, you may wish to remove the top cover to get a proper view of the mechanicals.

Short Cut Procedure

The above link may be a short cut, but I doubt that it will be a long lasting solution. The link below shows the RF assembly in its entirety when the top cover of the camera is removed.

Adjustment full view

It is a design begging for alignment troubles. One screw fixes the horizontal alignment in place. The horizontal alignment is set by a trial and error slider adjustment at the bottom. If the one screw holding the adjustment in place is over tightened, you will have to adjust the top adjusting screw for the vertical alignment. Varnish is used to keep the hold down screw in position.

This isn't a Leica. The Leica II and III series use a rotating prism in the RF window to adjust the vertical position of the RF patch. The horizontal adjustment is easily done by a set screw behind the front VF bezel. Those were simpler times.

 

[zuikologist]

Caffeineshutter, I had similar experiences with the 35ES and GIII - both are small enough to fit in a coat pocket and naturally get bumped. The RF was never misaligned on either of these, but the Bessa seems to be sensitive to bumps and general use. In my case, it is usually vertical alignment.

 

[thafred]

I had alot of problems with my BessaR´s rangefinder initialy...first I fixed the vertical alignment wich was out of wack from factory...then I noticed that this affected the horizontal alignment (foolish me..they are coupled somehow...in the M Leica´s they can be adjusted seperately wich makes life much easier)..after fiddling around it finaly was perfect but got knocked out by flying around in my car (emergency brake with camera on the passenger seat) again by accidentaly dropping the camera from 1,5m on hard concrete 😱 (no complains here...the plastic cover was broken but easily fixed and everything else continued to work very well even if the RF was out) ...fixed it a fourth time and noticed that the blue "screwstop" stuff was totaly incapable of keeping the screws in place (at least after fiddling around as much) so I used black nail polish on the screws adn eversince had no problem with bad alignment anymore.

Yes I should be more carefull with my equipment but otoh it feels good to know what a camera can take 😎
I think the core components of the original R are pretty rugged and reliable and I´m confident the R will be in my arsenal for many Years (thou not as long as my M6 but who knows 😉 )

 

[tedwhite]

No rf alignment problems yet. Had mine for a year (Bessa R) and carry it in a jacket pocket or in a Domke Brick 10 along with a Pentax DS and its lenses. When I leave the house it's usually with me. Don't baby it, but don't bang it around, either.

Ted

 

[Bertram2]

I wear my Bessa R since 6 years and it is still not out of alignement.
No clue what some do with their cameras.
In general ALL RF cameras with interchangeable lenses get out of alignement, if bumped around carelessly or by accidents.
I know a guy who has to correct his RF at least yearly, on his M4 tho. And that comes because this camera is oohh , so stable ! and aahh, so rugged ! and so he bumps it around like an idiot. The camera survives that mistreatment, but the RF gets sour of course.

In other words a misaligned RF is not a quality issue, it can happen to every RF camera, for various reasons.

bertram

 

[caffeineshutter]

Thank you all for your replies & help!

Thank you all for your replies & help!

Looks like I'll be shipping out at least one of my Bessas for alignment. I don't trust my hands not to screw things up. 🙂

 

[tedwhite]

Bertram, I agree. I've known Leica owners (users, not collectors) that treat their M's carelessly, perhaps trying to make a point.

If they want to bang something around they should get an Asahi Pentax Spotmatic SLR. I had a black one during the sixties and seventies that did photojournalism in Central America, went to Europe, Mexico, and at the end had almost all the black paint gone, brass showing everywhere, lots of dents, and looking as if it had been dragged behind a pickup truck. But it still worked perfectly.

One should treat a rangefinder a bit more carefully...

Ted

 

[mike goldberg]

Hi... This info is also in my new Bessa T Thread.

I used my M2 for 15 years as a working PJ. Rest assured it DID get bumped around, but NOT abused. Only once in 35 years, did it have CLA and RF alignment. One thing already noted in the Bessa T is: The thumb wind/film advance... at the end of the stroke, has a very different FEEL, from that of a Leica M2. A Bessa thumb wind is simply is not designed to be rammed forward to the stoping point, 10,000 times, or more.

So I'm going to learn to handle the T more gently ;-)
Ciao, mike