Bessa R vs R2 or R3

[louis]

I am new to this forum so please forgive me if this has been discussed before.

Is there a reason why rangefinder lines like the Leica M series or the Bessa R series leave out the self-timer in their most recent and desirable models? Is it only amateurs who want this feature? Is it just a cost savings measure?

I'm irritated that the Leica M6 and the Bessa R2 & R3 left ou the self timer. The Bessa R has it but the Bessa R doesn't seem as well built as the R3 or R2.

It's not a feature that I use often, but as a long-time OM1n owner, I find it useful when using slow shutter speeds on a tripod.

I know of no SLR that lacks a self-timer, so why do rangefinders leave it out?

And yes, I know you can buy an accessory self-timer, but that just adds another inconvenience to a type of camera that already has enough inconveniences vis a vis an SLR.

 

[matti]

As a rangefinder doesn't have a mirror that flips up and makes the camera shake, you don't need to use it for that reason, as on the OM1. Come to think of it, pressing the shutter also creates shake, so I suppose it might be a good idea anyway. But I don't think it is as important as for a SLR.

/matti

 

[foon]

As a rangefinder doesn't have a mirror that flips up and makes the camera shake, you don't need to use it for that reason, as on the OM1. Come to think of it, pressing the shutter also creates shake, so I suppose it might be a good idea anyway. But I don't think it is as important as for a SLR.

/matti

self timer is also use to make self portraits
not just to avoid camera shake 😉

 

[matti]

self timer is also use to make self portraits
not just to avoid camera shake 😉

Naa, I just hold the camera in one hand and look into the lens. (See my avatar 😎 )

/matti

 

[RML]

I don't miss it at all. Never did, never will. For the purpose you're talking about I'd go with a cable release, which cost some $5 or so.

Have to disagree with you on the build quality of the R, compaired with the R2A/R3A. It's lighter, yes, but as sturdy as the R2A. The main difference is that the R is LTM mount where the R2A/R3A are M mount. Now that is an important difference.

 

[lubitel]

what about the good old extension cord for long exposures?

 

[a.black]

I know of no SLR that lacks a self-timer, so why do rangefinders leave it out?

And yes, I know you can buy an accessory self-timer, but that just adds another inconvenience to a type of camera that already has enough inconveniences vis a vis an SLR.

Depends on what you want to shoot. Rangefinder are smaller, mostly a lot quieter, with a little practice you can go well below 1/15th, the lenses are smaller thus the outfit is very unobtrusive. Under bad light conditions rangefinders are easier to focus (my opinion, depends on the quality of the viewfinder).
If you want to go more wideangle, rangefinder would be the way to go. Excellent lenses and very small (I said that already 😀). The CV 35/2.5 looks only slightly lager than my ex-SLR wideangle rear lens cap 😱. On the other side the upper focallength limit is somewhere between 75mm and 135mm (again opinion, but also depends on the rangefinder baselength)

For your camera, the R is a real bargain compared to the R2A/R3A. The plastic covering are not really a problem (never touch a leica, that would invalidate my statement 😀 ). My R survived a drop on some rocks and some soaking yesterday in the snow with no problem whatsoever. And what you save on the body you can invest in a good lens.

 

[Huck Finn]

The R and the R2 also have the limitation of 0.9 close focus capability while the others you mention focus to 0.7 m. My understanding is that the M6 removed the self-timer to use that space for the battery. Previous models were unmetered & therefore used no battery. I imagine that you can find the explanation of why the self-timer was removed in developing the R2 somewhere on www.cameraquest.com.

 

[matti]

The R and the R2 also have the limitation of 0.9 close focus capability while the others you mention focus to 0.7 m. [/url].

If I remember correctly, the rf-patch stoped moving at 0.9 m with the R2, but it was possible to scale focus at closer distances if the lens permitted it.

/matti

 

[ChrisPlatt]

It has been my experience that the built-in self timer is often the
first thing that stops working on the typical mechanical camera.

When Pentax decided to make an economy SLR based on their model KM,
they eliminated the self timer and DOF preview, features their research
found to be seldom used by the majority of photographers.

The model that resulted was their extremely successful K1000.

"Excelsior, you fathead!"
-Chris-

 

[louis]

I wish that Voigtlander had replaced the mechanical self-timer on the Bessa R with a more reliable electronic one when they brought out the Bessa R3 with it's electronic shutter.

I like the look & feel of the R2a & R3a over the Bessa R. Sometimes that is just as important as the functionality.

Since the R2a & R3a are metal bodied, does this mean that they are more durable long term and more likely to hold their value than the Bessa R?

How do you think the different lens mount affects the value?

 

[ch1]

Wow - I have a ton of cameras, SLRs and RFs and of those that have one - I cannot think of a single time I have used the self-timer (except on my FT-2 when my big fat fingers have on occassion set it by mistake)! :bang:

I have used self times on P&S's - but isn't that what those cameras are for? 😀

 

[Talisker]

The mechanical timer on my Pentax MX is still working after 25 years and god knows how many shots. Have I used it? Probably about 100-150 times at a guess- long exposures when there was no cable release to hand (I tend to lose them...)

 

[Frank Granovski]

I also miss the timer on my R3A, but I must confess that there are only few occasions I would need it. I assume Cosina went after the Leica heads who couldn't afford a Leica because most Leicas also don't have timers. Nevertheless, I find my R3A to be quite a nice camera though the R2A's frame-lines might be better. (Go with what the board experts suggest.) It's only the 40mm frame-lines which I have some difficulty with. The rest are fine; and I wear glasses. Get the black professional one. 😎

 

[dostacos]

I wish that Voigtlander had replaced the mechanical self-timer on the Bessa R with a more reliable electronic one when they brought out the Bessa R3 with it's electronic shutter.

I like the look & feel of the R2a & R3a over the Bessa R. Sometimes that is just as important as the functionality.

Since the R2a & R3a are metal bodied, does this mean that they are more durable long term and more likely to hold their value than the Bessa R?

How do you think the different lens mount affects the value?

Had I to do it again I would buy the R2 instead of the R so I could use the CV lenses that are bayonet only [like the 35/1.2 😱 ] I like manual cameras

I prefer the look of a black camera [heck I hate chrome on my cars and trucks too!] but from what I have seen of older cameras [lots of Pentax's] the chrome looks better after lots of use on the other hand the R2, R2A & R3A don't come in chrome so.....

BUT if you are buying for resale as well as current function, get a Leica even though Bessa Ls are selling used for more than the new price on CAMERAQUEST and PHOTOVILLAGE 😱


Bessa R screw mount lenses only, battery for meter only [camera does not die with battery]

Bessa R2 bayonet mount so both types of lenses can be used again battery for meter only

Bessa R2a and R3a bayonet mount so both types can be used, BUT the battery dies the camera dies both are aperture priority

Bessa R2A has a .7 magnification finder R3A has a 1:1

last the R3A has framelines for the 40mm lens the others have framelines for the 35

check out cameraquest's website http://www.cameraquest.com

 

[Hibbs]

I'm pretty sure the OM1 has a mirror lock...doesn't it?

 

[dgray]

The big issue for me with self timers on rangefinders is their location on the body. If the lever is on the shooter's right on the body panel next to the lens, it seriously gets in the way of my grip on the camera. It just doesn't feel right with this fiddly bump under my fingers and I much prefer the smooth uninterrupted feel of no self-timer lever. It depends somewhat where it is, though. On my Pentax ME Super the lever points up is closer to the lens and higher up, so it doesn't really get in the way that much, but on some rangefinders it is downright annoying. When I do shoot landscapes I use the timer or cable release for every shot, regardless, but that is almost always on an SLR.

 

[nwcanonman]

I'm perfectly happy with the self-timer on the Bessa R, and pretty much everything else about the R ~ ; - )

 

[a.black]

If the lever is on the shooter's right on the body panel next to the lens, it seriously gets in the way of my grip on the camera. It just doesn't feel right with this fiddly bump under my fingers and I much prefer the smooth uninterrupted feel of no self-timer lever.

I actually like the self timer where it is. It helps my grip, and I miss it already on cameras that don't have it. I even use it sometimes. 🙂

 

[louis]

I'm pretty sure the OM1 has a mirror lock...doesn't it?

Yes, the OM1 has a mirror lock-up. It is almost the perfect SLR, small, light body & small lenses, bright viewfinder. Unfortunately it has no shutter/aperture info in the viewfinder, just the match needle. Also, the meter is powered by a now discontinued mercury cell and gives incorrect readings if you use a silver oxide battery. I've used hearing aid batteries successfully, but they don't last long. Oh well, real photographers don't need built-in meters!

I do use the wonderful, tiny, rangefinder Olympus XA when I want to be discreet.

Now my daughter has been using my OM1 for her high school photography class and she loves it- won't let me sell it!

I've been pondering either the Voigtlander or a used Leica. I love the build quality of the Leica but I hate the loading system and the price of lenses.