Lilserenity
Well-known
Hello,
This is my second post as a new member so hello.
Secondly I have been reading this forum for weeks and have gleaned a lot of helpful information, I have also searched threads and have gotten much of the answer I need.
I have for my personal uses preferred to stay with 35mm film as I prefer the aesthetic, I enjoy the process etc. etc. I do use digital from time to time but my passion is black and white film photography. I do a lot of street work, documentary but also landscape and low light work. Now to get on to why I am here.
I already own a Canon EOS 3 which I will never part with, an Olympus Trip 35 and an Olympus XA. The latter two are fun to work with and infact the XA will tide me over in many ways until I get either of the two cameras in the subject line. I really like the 'natural' 35mm focal length compared to extreme wide angles such as 21mm.
What 'brought this on' is that I am a keen walker. I recently finished the South Downs Way in SE England (100 miles + 20 miles to/from accomodation/pubs) and the EOS 3 really did weigh me down, especially with the heavy all metal 35mm f/2 Super MC Takumar lens I have attached via an M42 adapter. So I want something lighter, with interchangeable lenses, that can shoot film, that is built well and is generally a pleasure to use.
For a long time I didn't even know Cosina were knocking out M mount cameras and so I was resigned to one day owning a Leica but that day would not be any time soon. I was naive!
My aim is to use as a system a 35mm f/1.4 lens, a 50mm of probably f/2 and slower, and a 75/85/90mm telephoto.
From what I understand the Zeiss Ikon ZI will be much better at accurate focussing at wide open apertures and telephotos than the Bessa R2a? Or, do people find that the R2a can be focussed accurately enought at f/1.4 Nokton VM on an R2a? I ask that as the 35mm is venturing into wide angle territory.
The second question is that I do want to use the rangefinder for good portraiture (the EOS 3 does have a 135mm Takumar and 70-200mm f/4L to use on it but if I'm using something smaller!) with wide open apertures. Is the R2a decent enough to focus with?
I am not a glass wearer.
It does appear from what I have read that if I manage to save up for the Zeiss Ikon (about £950 vs. the R2a's £380) I will get a 'better' camera, but I could get an R2a and two good lenses for the same money -- but if need be then I will save up the rest.
I do not want a Leica, as I want AE Av mode, and I'm not in the market to pay for a M7, as I'll be saving for a good few years!
Also does anyone here use a camera like the R2a/R3a and uses it whilst out walking long distances? The camera will need to endure not so much as abuse but a varied climate but also just generally be quite tough to be around my neck if I'm walking 18-25miles a day!
Appreciably when I'm walking the majority of the time it will be open at f/8-16 so focussing becomes less of an issue then, but it's the wide open apertures on the 35mm/50mm and 75/85/90mm telephotos that I am unsure of.
The bottom line is actually me trying them out but there is no shop locally to do so but I will do before making my final purchase.
I just can't be done with carrying 2+ lbs of camera any more on long treks!
Many many thanks,
Vicky
This is my second post as a new member so hello.
Secondly I have been reading this forum for weeks and have gleaned a lot of helpful information, I have also searched threads and have gotten much of the answer I need.I have for my personal uses preferred to stay with 35mm film as I prefer the aesthetic, I enjoy the process etc. etc. I do use digital from time to time but my passion is black and white film photography. I do a lot of street work, documentary but also landscape and low light work. Now to get on to why I am here.
I already own a Canon EOS 3 which I will never part with, an Olympus Trip 35 and an Olympus XA. The latter two are fun to work with and infact the XA will tide me over in many ways until I get either of the two cameras in the subject line. I really like the 'natural' 35mm focal length compared to extreme wide angles such as 21mm.
What 'brought this on' is that I am a keen walker. I recently finished the South Downs Way in SE England (100 miles + 20 miles to/from accomodation/pubs) and the EOS 3 really did weigh me down, especially with the heavy all metal 35mm f/2 Super MC Takumar lens I have attached via an M42 adapter. So I want something lighter, with interchangeable lenses, that can shoot film, that is built well and is generally a pleasure to use.
For a long time I didn't even know Cosina were knocking out M mount cameras and so I was resigned to one day owning a Leica but that day would not be any time soon. I was naive!
My aim is to use as a system a 35mm f/1.4 lens, a 50mm of probably f/2 and slower, and a 75/85/90mm telephoto.
From what I understand the Zeiss Ikon ZI will be much better at accurate focussing at wide open apertures and telephotos than the Bessa R2a? Or, do people find that the R2a can be focussed accurately enought at f/1.4 Nokton VM on an R2a? I ask that as the 35mm is venturing into wide angle territory.
The second question is that I do want to use the rangefinder for good portraiture (the EOS 3 does have a 135mm Takumar and 70-200mm f/4L to use on it but if I'm using something smaller!) with wide open apertures. Is the R2a decent enough to focus with?
I am not a glass wearer.
It does appear from what I have read that if I manage to save up for the Zeiss Ikon (about £950 vs. the R2a's £380) I will get a 'better' camera, but I could get an R2a and two good lenses for the same money -- but if need be then I will save up the rest.
I do not want a Leica, as I want AE Av mode, and I'm not in the market to pay for a M7, as I'll be saving for a good few years!
Also does anyone here use a camera like the R2a/R3a and uses it whilst out walking long distances? The camera will need to endure not so much as abuse but a varied climate but also just generally be quite tough to be around my neck if I'm walking 18-25miles a day!
Appreciably when I'm walking the majority of the time it will be open at f/8-16 so focussing becomes less of an issue then, but it's the wide open apertures on the 35mm/50mm and 75/85/90mm telephotos that I am unsure of.
The bottom line is actually me trying them out but there is no shop locally to do so but I will do before making my final purchase.
I just can't be done with carrying 2+ lbs of camera any more on long treks!
Many many thanks,
Vicky
Spyderman
Well-known
Generally, Bessa R2 can just focus the Cosina lenses, which means 90/3.5 (and slower), 75/2.5 (and slower), 50/1.5, 35/1.2.
But of course, it is easier to focus longer lenses with a RF with longer baselength, because smaller offset in focussing translates to more movement in the rangefinder patch. (I hope you get what I'm trying to say)
But of course, it is easier to focus longer lenses with a RF with longer baselength, because smaller offset in focussing translates to more movement in the rangefinder patch. (I hope you get what I'm trying to say)
back alley
IMAGES
i had a hard time focussing the cv 35/1.4 on my r4a, but others seem ok with a faster lens on the cv bodies. i'm 57 and wear tri-focal progressive glasses so i'm not too sure if that impeded things.
i have the r4a/r3a and a zi and i like them all and could recommend any of them. i'm also impatient and would say go for the r2a and some cv lenses so you can get them all sooner.
i would recommend the 50/2.5 as it's small, sharp and cheapest of the cv 50's, along with the small cv 75 and the cv 35/1.4.
that would be a killer combo and it would hardly weigh in at a noticeable amount.
joe
i have the r4a/r3a and a zi and i like them all and could recommend any of them. i'm also impatient and would say go for the r2a and some cv lenses so you can get them all sooner.
i would recommend the 50/2.5 as it's small, sharp and cheapest of the cv 50's, along with the small cv 75 and the cv 35/1.4.
that would be a killer combo and it would hardly weigh in at a noticeable amount.
joe
mfogiel
Veteran
Seeing that you are not interested in wide angles, and in order not to spend too much right away, I'd say, skip the R2A and get the R3A instead, with the 40/1.4 and 75/2.5 - these are pretty good lenses and will have you set for the time being, then you will see what you really need. The Bessa is not rock solid, but with a bit of patience you can adjust it yourself if it goes off alignment. I'd recommend a half case to shield it a bit from the bumps.
P. Lynn Miller
Well-known
Vicky,
Welcome to RRF.
While I have not used the Zeiss and from what I read and hear from Zeiss users, it is a great camera. The Bessa rangefinders are wonderful little cameras.
In order of build quality, you start at the bottom with Bessa and finish at the top with Leica and Zeiss fits in the middle. From my point of view any of those three with regular service and continued availability of parts will last a lifetime under normal use and produce excellent photos. My Bessa R2 has spent most of its life in bouncing around in the handlebar bag of my bike. So it is a tough little beast and it is considered to be of mediocre build quality.
One of the unique things about rangefinders is the common mount, M-mount(the LTM is useable with adapters) is the standard unlike 35mm SLR's where every brand has a different mount and are not interchangeable. So you can buy a $200 Bessa and use a $2500 Leica lens on it or vice versa. The pool of lenses is huge, from old LTM lens to the latest optical marvels from Zeiss.
I use and abuse a Bessa R2, and while I am considering purchasing the Zeiss Ikon as a second body, I would have no issues with Bessa R2 remain my only rangefinder. My biggest issue with the Bessa is that due to an eye injury , Icannot wear contacts anymore, so I am struggling with the smaller Bessa finder and hope that the acclaimed Zeiss viewfinder will be better for me. When I was wearing contacts, the Bessa was more than adequate.
As you know with film, the camera is a glorified light-tight box with a shutter, so I would recommend that you find a R2A and buy some good glass. My R2 is very capable of focusing my 90mm f3.5, 28mm f2.0, 50mm f2.5. And plenty of people are using the Bessa to focus faster glass without any trouble. So the newer, better Bessa R2A should be a fine performer for your purpose.
As for using the Bessa for portraits, the 90mm f3.5 is a brilliant little lens, that takes wonderful portraits. Anything longer than 90mm I would recommend using your EOS3.
Here is the kit I would like if I were in the same situation as you, the VC Color-Skopar 35mm f2.5 Classic, a stunning little lens, that is light and compact you forget it on the camera. I would use the Nokton 50mm f1.5 for low-light work in pubs and cafes, and use the APO-Lanthar 90mm f3.5 for portraits. This is almost identical to my current kit which I use on my bicycle all the time, except I have the Color-Skopar 50mm f2.5 instead of the Nokton 50mm 1.5. But I am thinking of getting the Nokton to replace the Color-Skopar very soon.
This would make for a very lightweight, versatile kit that would be very compact and easy to carry long-distances. And if you are not afraid to the buy some gear second-hand(I buy most of my gear used), you should have change left out of a $1000USD. Add one those tiny Ultra-Pod tripods to your kit and never look back.
Welcome to RRF.
While I have not used the Zeiss and from what I read and hear from Zeiss users, it is a great camera. The Bessa rangefinders are wonderful little cameras.
In order of build quality, you start at the bottom with Bessa and finish at the top with Leica and Zeiss fits in the middle. From my point of view any of those three with regular service and continued availability of parts will last a lifetime under normal use and produce excellent photos. My Bessa R2 has spent most of its life in bouncing around in the handlebar bag of my bike. So it is a tough little beast and it is considered to be of mediocre build quality.
One of the unique things about rangefinders is the common mount, M-mount(the LTM is useable with adapters) is the standard unlike 35mm SLR's where every brand has a different mount and are not interchangeable. So you can buy a $200 Bessa and use a $2500 Leica lens on it or vice versa. The pool of lenses is huge, from old LTM lens to the latest optical marvels from Zeiss.
I use and abuse a Bessa R2, and while I am considering purchasing the Zeiss Ikon as a second body, I would have no issues with Bessa R2 remain my only rangefinder. My biggest issue with the Bessa is that due to an eye injury , Icannot wear contacts anymore, so I am struggling with the smaller Bessa finder and hope that the acclaimed Zeiss viewfinder will be better for me. When I was wearing contacts, the Bessa was more than adequate.
As you know with film, the camera is a glorified light-tight box with a shutter, so I would recommend that you find a R2A and buy some good glass. My R2 is very capable of focusing my 90mm f3.5, 28mm f2.0, 50mm f2.5. And plenty of people are using the Bessa to focus faster glass without any trouble. So the newer, better Bessa R2A should be a fine performer for your purpose.
As for using the Bessa for portraits, the 90mm f3.5 is a brilliant little lens, that takes wonderful portraits. Anything longer than 90mm I would recommend using your EOS3.
Here is the kit I would like if I were in the same situation as you, the VC Color-Skopar 35mm f2.5 Classic, a stunning little lens, that is light and compact you forget it on the camera. I would use the Nokton 50mm f1.5 for low-light work in pubs and cafes, and use the APO-Lanthar 90mm f3.5 for portraits. This is almost identical to my current kit which I use on my bicycle all the time, except I have the Color-Skopar 50mm f2.5 instead of the Nokton 50mm 1.5. But I am thinking of getting the Nokton to replace the Color-Skopar very soon.
This would make for a very lightweight, versatile kit that would be very compact and easy to carry long-distances. And if you are not afraid to the buy some gear second-hand(I buy most of my gear used), you should have change left out of a $1000USD. Add one those tiny Ultra-Pod tripods to your kit and never look back.
thomasw_
Well-known
Are you determined to get the lenses and the body new? If not, perhaps you'd consider a barnack leica with a screw mount? They are tiny and very, very robust. Also, you could pick up a used IIIc etc., for less than a R2. Another upside is that the barnack's are very groovy looking The downsides are that you would need to learn to pre-trim your cassette leaders to 4" and that you'd need to use external vfs for the 35/75 focal lengths. But having a SM / LTM body would allow you to use the LTM CV lenses as well as a host of others.
The downsides are that you would need to learn to pre-trim your cassette leaders to 4" and that you'd need to use external vfs for the 35/75 focal lengths. But having a SM / LTM body would allow you to use the LTM CV lenses as well as a host of others.
ferider
Veteran
Try an R3a with 40/1.4 and 75/2.5. Very compact and useful kit. If you want wide, you could add a 21 color skopar later.
Cheers,
Roland.
Cheers,
Roland.
capitalK
Warrior Poet :P
There's a cheap M7 in the classifieds now, not much more than a ZI, really.
Hi Vicky, i own an R2a, an 35 2.5 pancake and an 50 colorscopar 2.5. the camera meter is slideproof, very reliably even against light. The camera is light to carry the lenses are microscopic compared to those of an SLR. Build quality is ok, only the eyepiece of rubber is going off. I have ofen the camera in a leather case from an Konica Hexar not the original plastic one from Cosina. d'0nt forget to always have batteries as replacement with you. the whole gear is fine and my SLR stays at home because it is too heavy. once you touched a rangefinder and you are not a fanatic macroshooter, you 'll will have your range with you everyday.
greetings
greetings
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Bobfrance
Over Exposed
Get and R3A and a lens or two so you can get shooting as soon as possible.
You can always trade up to an Ikon if you feel the need.
You can always trade up to an Ikon if you feel the need.
ZeissFan
Veteran
I owned a Bessa-R, and it was a wonderfully lightweight camera that you could hang from your neck all day. I had the 35mm Pancake (first version) attached to it.
However, the one thing that always annoyed me was that is was an unbalanced camera. What I mean is that the camera always wanted to flip upward, so that the lens would be pointing toward the sky. While it's a small thing, it also meant that I had to keep one hand on the camera most of the time when I simply was walking around.
Now, I must qualify this by saying that I haven't handled the newer models, so perhaps this is no longer an issue. It's something to keep in mind and to check, if you're able to handle the camera before you buy it.
The Zeiss Ikon, while slightly heavier (30 grams) than the R3A, is a nicely balanced camera. That is, if you hold the camera by its strap, it neither pitches forward nor does it tilt backward. Again, it's a small thing, but something that annoyed me.
If you plan to keep the camera in the bag, only removing it to take a photo, then this is a moot point.
However, the one thing that always annoyed me was that is was an unbalanced camera. What I mean is that the camera always wanted to flip upward, so that the lens would be pointing toward the sky. While it's a small thing, it also meant that I had to keep one hand on the camera most of the time when I simply was walking around.
Now, I must qualify this by saying that I haven't handled the newer models, so perhaps this is no longer an issue. It's something to keep in mind and to check, if you're able to handle the camera before you buy it.
The Zeiss Ikon, while slightly heavier (30 grams) than the R3A, is a nicely balanced camera. That is, if you hold the camera by its strap, it neither pitches forward nor does it tilt backward. Again, it's a small thing, but something that annoyed me.
If you plan to keep the camera in the bag, only removing it to take a photo, then this is a moot point.
kshapero
South Florida Man
I started with a Bessa R3A and a CV 40/1.4. That is a GREAT kit. I found the Bessa VERY reliable. I do a lot of mountain climbing when on vacation and I go to the beach all the time here in Florida. Nary a problem. Next save up for a ZI. BTW don't be afraid to buy used here on the RFF forum.
Hi Zeissfan, your are right , my r2a is also unbalanced even with the heavy 50mm 210gramms
Vicky, dont be afraid , start with a Bessa and if rangefinder suits you you can buy Zi or Leica, if not, you resell it. The price for a Bessa is not too high for what you get.
back alley
IMAGES
get a bessa grip and this problem goes away and you have the added bonus of having it to hold on to.
kross
sonnarism
i find it difficult to focus accurately using my r2a + 35/1.2
no problem with the m6.... hmmm....
no problem with the m6.... hmmm....
knodd
Member
hey vicky,
I too am really new to rangefinder and I'm very happy with my r3a. If you're not planning on shooting wide stuff and you're willing to forgo the 35mm, you might want to consider the r3a. It's great for shooting with lenses 50 and above cos of the 1.0x magnification viewfinder.
The 40mm nokton is a great lens too! Although it takes abit of effort sometimes to see the 40mm framelines. But well if you're dead set on the 35mm focal length, i'm sure the r2a will be great for you!
I think the bessas are great affordable beginner cameras, you definitely won't be disappointed if you pick up one
(can't say much for the ZI, never touched one before)
cheers,
shaun
I too am really new to rangefinder and I'm very happy with my r3a. If you're not planning on shooting wide stuff and you're willing to forgo the 35mm, you might want to consider the r3a. It's great for shooting with lenses 50 and above cos of the 1.0x magnification viewfinder.
The 40mm nokton is a great lens too! Although it takes abit of effort sometimes to see the 40mm framelines. But well if you're dead set on the 35mm focal length, i'm sure the r2a will be great for you!
I think the bessas are great affordable beginner cameras, you definitely won't be disappointed if you pick up one
(can't say much for the ZI, never touched one before)
cheers,
shaun
Avotius
Some guy
I agree that the bessa is a nice place to start, after my bessa r2a I got a Leica M6, and wow, I found out I like my bessa better! I use all sorts of lenses and wide open as well. Many of my photos can be found littered all around this forum with pictures I have taken with that camera.
Lilserenity
Well-known
My many, many thanks to everybody who has taken the time to respond. I'm going to read through this little treasure trove of information and report back on your thoughts later this evening. I can't thank you all enough for graciously spending your time answering my queries!
I need to sit down and put me readers on
I need to sit down and put me readers on
knodd
Member
Sorry for the OT, but avotius, why do you not like the leica? Since i got into rangefinder photography and i got my r3a, i have constantly been captived by the charm of leicas. In fact i've already started saving up for an m6, and although i'd love it alot i'm just looking for reasons to tell myself i don't need to get one...