Bessa shotgun, or why is the Bessa so loud?

Leaf shutters are probably the quietest. No, the pinhole shutter probably is quieter.

Among production cameras, though, it's a leaf shutter.

The Bessa might seem loud indoors, but out in the real world few have ever looked my way when I took a photo.

However, I wouldn't use the camera in a church or during most religious ceremonies or any place in which absolute silence is expected.

The Retina IIIS is also an impressively quiet camera.

The Rolleiflex SL66 is not quiet.

But no camera comes close to gunfire. An M-60 machine gun is a lot more fun than a Leica and would literally tear it to pieces in a head-to-head matchup.

Despite being a point-and-shoot, an M-60 is just a terrible photographic device. Aside from the fact that there is no way to load film, everyone runs for cover when you point the barrel at them.

What was the question? Oh yeah, gunfire -- loud! Bessa -- not as loud.
 
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I recently changed from a Bessa R to an M3, but besides the noice being more metallic in the R, I didn't notice that much of a difference in sound level for it to be an issue. I've used the Bessa often on suspicious people in the street, but normally they'd spot me before a shutter even goes off... shutter sound never bothered me nor did it to the people on the street.
 
In my personal experience with 3 Bessa cameras (2 R's and an R2) and my Leica cameras (M2,3,6, IIf), I have noticed that he Bessas were all louder than any of the Leicas. The Leicas are NOT silent, and they are louder than almost all leaf shutter cameras. In most cases however, a Bessa will be quiet enough. I have been in situations though where the Bessa would be too loud, and where the Leicas were quiet enough. This has been my personal experience. This cannot be argued.
 
It seems this thread has started a shutter design to loudness test.

Robot cameras use a circular spinning disk shutter. They are very quiet. I think it is quieter than a compur. Just rememmber not to wind the spring loaded motor drive. Now that's a "shotgun".
 
ISO said:
Sorry CVBR3M, that was not my intention. Argument? No, sure a shotgun is way louder, but this Bessa R2 is the first camera I really notice the sound of the shutter. Maybe it is just the one I have, but believe me it is very loud compared to my other cameras.
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I had a R2 but I got rid of it. The number one reason was the sound of the shutter AND the film advance mech. I did an informal test against an M7 and I concur that the R2 was not louder. However it is distinctive enough to be noticed/heard, even on the street. Also, I don't always shoot on the street. I shoot inside, too, and it was always difficult to be discreet shooting indoors with the R2. The sound of the shutter combined with the sound of the film advance combined with that blasted red meter light that is viewable from outside the camera :bang: ...well I'd rather shoot with an SLR. I found the R2 to be very un-RF-like for an RF camera. IMHO. :)


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ZeissFan said:
An M-60 machine gun is a lot more fun than a Leica and would literally tear it to pieces in a head-to-head matchup.
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This reminds me of an article I once read in a 1993 issue of "Macworld", which had a comparison the Macintosh Quadra 950 computer and the F-15 fighter aicraft. It had statistics like this:

Engine:
Quadra 950: Motorola 68040 microprocessor
F-15: Two Pratt & Whitney F-100 turbofans

Top speed:
Quadra 950: 33 MHz
F-15: 1900 mph

It closed on the note that "Try as I might, I couldn't find out how to get a bar graph out of these specs."

So, in a similar line:

Weight:
M6: 450 g
M60: 10.5 kg

Ammunition:
M6: "135" type perforated 35mm cine film
M60: .308 standard 7.62x51mm NATO rounds

Rate of fire:
M6: Depending on user speed, usually up to 2 shots/sec
M60: approx. 10 rounds/sec

This space, next week: Zorki-6 vs. MiG-29. Stay tuned! ;)

Philipp
 
I think the best comparision of a common noise to a bessa shutter I've heard was when I asked a friend about it when I was thinking of getting one "It's about as loud as a bic lighter" I found this to be quite true and I found not too many people turn heads as a result of either one.
 
There's definately an obvious difference in sound levels between my metal shutter Bessa and cloth shutter Leica. But in a very silent environment or situation where the Bessa would be too loud, you'd also be able to distinctly hear the Leica..

But here's what I also found out. The absolutely most quiet camera I owned was a Minox 35. It's smaller than a pack of cigarettes too, so you'd figure noone would even notice when you're snapping pictures. Not so. People were more wary with the Minox than with any other camera I have had, probably because they're wondering what you're doing. Something that is far more obvious with a larger and louder camera, and hence better accepted..
 
Want a really quiet shutter? Get a TLR.

Unfortunately, advancing the film on a TLR is significantly louder than doing so on a 35mm SLR.

Maybe a 3x4 speed graphic with a cut film magazine: rangefinder, quiet shutter (if you use a leaf shutter and not the focal plane shutter) and a cut film magazine (bag mag) is very quiet when you advance to the next sheet of film. Of course, you would lose what anominity you had toting a speed graphic around, so I guess you can't win for losing.

-KwM-
 
kwmullet said:
Unfortunately, advancing the film on a TLR is significantly louder than doing so on a 35mm SLR.
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Not necessarily, it depends very much on the TLR. A Rolleiflex- or Yashica-style ratcheted crank is not silent. A film winding knob like on the early Flexarets or the Rolleicord is as quiet as it gets.

Philipp
 
When I need no sound, just use my Finepix F11 P&S. Up to ISO 1600 with No Sound at all.
Otherwise my F2 makes more noise than my D2H.. and the quiter is the Nikon S.

A picture is a picture, the medium is just a tool.
 
biomed said:
A group of us were comparing shutter sounds just last week. The general consensus was that the Bessa shutter is not that much louder than a M6 shutter - I DON'T WANT TO START A SHUTTER LOUDNESS WAR!! -. The Bessa shutter has a sharper metallic click versus the lower frequency, softer sound of the M6. The M6 would be less noticeable in a quiet environment, but street shooting, the shutter sound is buried in all the background sound. .
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That is my experience too. I have used them side by side, and the surprise was that the the Leica shutter wasn't really quiet , like a blade shutter can be.
The Bessa metal shutters with the front blind are louder than the Leica cloth shutters , but the difference is not really essential.

To compare a Bessa with guns or to keep it as the loudest camera ever shows a total lack of practical experience, with guns as with cameras :D

bertram
 
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ISO said:
Olympus 35 SP RD RD, XAs :), Canonet, Konica S2, Minolta 7 and 7SII, Konica S3 , Yashica Electro, Rollei 35 :), Contax G2 ....

I am not saying the Bessas are bad cameras. Bessas are even great for the price you pay, but...
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Well,
compared to your leaf shutter rangefinders, the Bessa is loud. But believe me, compared to a Kiev 88 it is very quiet! :D

Best regards,
Uwe
 
Bertram2 said:
That is my experience too. I have used them side by side, and the surprise was that the the Leica shutter wasn't really quiet , like a blade shutter can be.
The Bessa metal shutters with the front blind are louder than the Leica cloth shutters , but the difference is not really essential.

To compare a Bessa with guns or to keep it as the loudest camera ever shows a total lack of practical experience, with guns as with cameras :D

bertram
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That is my point - it has been my experience that the difference was essential: The Bessa was too loud, the Leica was quiet enough. Small difference in absolute sound level, but a very essential difference in the situations I was in. The Bessa was loud enough to be noticed, and the Leica was quiet enough not to be noticed.

Anyway: the Bessa's are good cameras, but they are louder than Leicas (that don't need a cla). Only the individual user can assess whether the sound difference is important to them. It was to me. YMMV
 
i never heard bessa (i hope ill hear it one day :D ) but i dont think that sound of shutter will upset me . few years ago i was shooting with zenit e almost all the time - and it is really really loud - but i liked that i never thought that thats disadvantage. i think that there is too much thinking about shutter sound - people who dont like to be photographed almost always see photographer before shot (and there are lot of them in belgrade :( ).
 
FrankS said:
Only the individual user can assess whether the sound difference is important to them.
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How true. Unfortunately this is not the way the whole issue is usually discussed.
The reason Must be that some gearheads simply cannot live with the differentiations of a relative point of view, tho this is the only reasonable approach.
Easier to rely on an absolute value no matter if it exists or not. The very most gear discussions suffer from that illnes.:rolleyes:

Bertram
 
Thanks to all of you. Did one of you ever compare the R2(m) to a R2(a), R3a, R4a? Is the shutter design different in the Bessa (a)uto models, compared to the manual models? Also the sound ? Thx.
 
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