Merkin
For the Weekend
All of my life, I have always kept a normal uv filter on the front of all of my lenses, as much for protection and ease of cleaning as anything else. Other than the occasional ND filter, I have never really used any other filters, and I am wondering if there would be better choices for me. This spring, I will be traveling to Mexico for a few months to do a lot of photography. I shoot black and white exclusively, and on this trip I will be shooting FP4 and Tri-x, both in diafine. I will be carrying a CV 35mm f1.4 lens, mostly for nighttime shooting (with the trix @1250 or 1600), a ZM 50 f2 planar for daytime street shooting (with the fp4 @ 250), and most likely a 90mm f4 m mount non-collapsible elmar, which will probably only see daytime use (film choice will depend on the shutter speeds I need). If you were going to put a filter on each of those three lenses and leave it on all the time, which filters would you put on them, considering the above data?
Thanks in advance for your consideration and advice.
Thanks in advance for your consideration and advice.
navilluspm
Well-known
I am no expert at all. But I would use a yellow green for people, nothing at night, and red for landscape. The basic rule of thumb is that you pick the filter color oposite of what you want dark. If you want a dark blue sky, use a red filter. If you want contrast a persons red lips from their face, use a green or blue filter.
A yellow contrast filter is a good al around filter, but I like yellow-green even better for people. Yellow-green is my most used filter.
But, again, I am not an expert
A yellow contrast filter is a good al around filter, but I like yellow-green even better for people. Yellow-green is my most used filter.
But, again, I am not an expert
bmattock
Veteran
If only one filter to be left on all the time, as you said...
None for night shooting.
Light yellow for daytime.
That's it.
None for night shooting.
Light yellow for daytime.
That's it.
Al Kaplan
Veteran
No filter at all other than the UV. Shoot some tests of those films in Diafine under similar conditions before you go on the trip. Diafine tends to give relatively flat negatives and I think that those speeds might be a bit opimistic. 200 and 800 maybe, but do run some tests.
Merkin
For the Weekend
Naviluspm and bmattock- is there much difference between the light yellow and the yellow green in terms of quality of image? I know that some colored filters can cause you to lose a stop or more, would that be the case with either of the ones you mention?
Al Kaplan- Don't worry, I will definitely be testing before I go, but based on the ridiculous numbers of tests i have read about and talked with actual human beings about, the fp4 shouldn't be a problem at 250, and trix is fine at either 1250 or 1600, depending on the light and the look one is going for.
If the negs do turn out a bit on the flat side, what filters would you use to contrast 'em up a bit?
The main reason I will be diafine processing is that I will be processing my negs in hotel rooms in mexico every day or two, and diafine is a more forgiving process than pretty much anything else. Also, it means that I will only have to carry two different kinds of film instead of three to cover all of my bases.
Al Kaplan- Don't worry, I will definitely be testing before I go, but based on the ridiculous numbers of tests i have read about and talked with actual human beings about, the fp4 shouldn't be a problem at 250, and trix is fine at either 1250 or 1600, depending on the light and the look one is going for.
If the negs do turn out a bit on the flat side, what filters would you use to contrast 'em up a bit?
The main reason I will be diafine processing is that I will be processing my negs in hotel rooms in mexico every day or two, and diafine is a more forgiving process than pretty much anything else. Also, it means that I will only have to carry two different kinds of film instead of three to cover all of my bases.
navilluspm
Well-known
The Yellow green looses 1 stop - the same as my K2 Yellow. There may be a lighter yellow, but I really don't know. Al Kaplan certainly knows a lot more about this stuff than me, and so does bmattock, so I should probably refer you to them
FPjohn
Well-known
http://www.schneideroptics.com/info/handbook/
Light yellow , medium yellow or yellow green are all good choices and differ slightly in intensity for rendition of clouds. YG filters are held to give a "normal" or true tonal balance.
I choose a medium yellow as the default filter on all my lenses.
yours
FPJ
Light yellow , medium yellow or yellow green are all good choices and differ slightly in intensity for rendition of clouds. YG filters are held to give a "normal" or true tonal balance.
I choose a medium yellow as the default filter on all my lenses.
yours
FPJ
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oftheherd
Veteran
Personally, I would not recommend the red filter. It is a little harsh in its rendering, and will probably cut you speed 2 to 3 stops. For daylight, I think when you need a filter, the yellow will probably be best. I am not sure you really want to keep a filter on all the time. But I don't know the look you want.
What you really need to do is acquire those filters you think you will need and experiment with them before you go. You didn't say you will be making the same trip every year for the rest of you life. You need to know before you go what you can expect from any photo gear you take.
What you really need to do is acquire those filters you think you will need and experiment with them before you go. You didn't say you will be making the same trip every year for the rest of you life. You need to know before you go what you can expect from any photo gear you take.
Merkin
For the Weekend
I couldn't agree more. I was mainly asking as a starting point, looking for suggestions regarding what to start with.
I am one of those paranoid people that always leaves a filter on my lenses, perhaps because they always find some way to get dirty, regardless of how careful i am. Also, the lens cap will probably spend more time off than on, since i hate nothing more than losing a shot because I left the lenscap on. I lost a full roll like that in one of my holgas during the local zombie walk, and I know that at least 4 of the 12 would have been brilliant shots.
Since I basically view a filter as an easily cleanable shoot-thru lenscap, I figured I would find out if there were any that would actually give me better results than just a standard uv filter.
bmattock
Veteran
It is a lot less critical in these days of scanning negatives and manipulating them digitally. About the only solid (as opposed to gradient) filter I can't really imagine being done in a Photoshop-like program is the effect of a polarizing filter. Those are useful, but a bit of a hassle to use on a rangefinder camera.
I answered 'light yellow' for the daytime shots simply because you specified only one filter for daytime use, to be left on all the time. If you are going to change filters, then the sky is the limit, and it all depends on what you want to do. Do you understand the basics of what color filters do to light to modify it with regard to B&W film?
Al Kaplan
Veteran
I'll be honest, I don't have any recent experience with Diafine, but when l used it the negs always seemed to call out for a number 3 filter. I like a negative that gives me good shadow detail. With D:76 1:1 outdoors I tend to use the "Sunny Eleven" rule ~ shutter speed equals film speed and the aperture set at f/11. If the subject is mostly back lit I'll open up another stop or two. Modern films are quite forgiving of overexposure, although you risk losing seperation in the highlights.
If you don't over expose and over develop you should be able to get tone in a blue sky without a filter. A standard medium yellow (Kodak designation K-2) will absorb about two stops, a light yellow is one stop.
If you don't over expose and over develop you should be able to get tone in a blue sky without a filter. A standard medium yellow (Kodak designation K-2) will absorb about two stops, a light yellow is one stop.
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bmattock
Veteran
I use Diafine a lot. I find that it does compress contrast, but in available-light situations, that's what I want. Available light is inherently high-contrast, and I generally don't want all blown out whites and all blocked up blacks. Some gray would be nice. Diafine does that, probably better than any other developer (including 'push' developers, which Diafine is frequently called, but isn't). Since it develops to exhaustion, the light areas get worked over less and the darks more (or the other way around, I always get confused) and the end result is an overall lowering of contrast.
Yellow tends to increase contrast slightly - but ... I would not use it at night, therefore I would not be using it with Diafine - that's just me.
Merkin
For the Weekend
I noticed that a lot of people said that they would put no filter on the 35 which I will be using for night shooting. I know myself well enough to know that some sort of filter will be used. Is a normal UV filter my best bet if I am going to be using something?
bmattock- you are correct, my goal is to leave one filter on each lens all the time, but I am flexible as to what that filter is. I am perfectly willing to do a bit of experimentation to see what I like the best, but I figured I should pick the forum's brains a bit first.
Al Kaplan- A number 3 variable contrast filter is always my starting point in the darkroom anyway. The majority of RFF members seem to like a bit less contrast than I do. For my stuff, a #3 tends to give me a really full dynamic range in my prints, especially on warmtone.
bmattock- you are correct, my goal is to leave one filter on each lens all the time, but I am flexible as to what that filter is. I am perfectly willing to do a bit of experimentation to see what I like the best, but I figured I should pick the forum's brains a bit first.
Al Kaplan- A number 3 variable contrast filter is always my starting point in the darkroom anyway. The majority of RFF members seem to like a bit less contrast than I do. For my stuff, a #3 tends to give me a really full dynamic range in my prints, especially on warmtone.
bmattock
Veteran
Ah, I guess. Sorry, not my field, since I would use nothing on the lens, myself. That or a skylight. Not sure there would be any difference, in practical terms.
If it is to be just one, then I'd still say light yellow. Half a stop light loss, minor increase in contrast, no real harm either way. Greens are fine if you shoot a lot of people, but since they make green plants light and the desert is light, I don't know that I'd use one 'all the time'. Same for red, it's just too much, although it certainly makes for dramatic skies if you've got some white fluffy clouds in the sky, or stark scenes of pueblos and so forth. Blues are more or less worthless for B&W outdoor shooting. So that leaves yellow and orange. I would choose yellow as the least likely to cause problems.
I lived in Albuquerque for several years, and shot a lot of B&W there. Not the same as Mexico, but not that different either. I generally used a medium yellow. Not sure it mattered much.