Benjamin Marks
Veteran
Propelled by a comment in a thread here, I went to e-bay to see what a used Nex-7 was going for these days. Wow. About $400 will get you a heck of a rig. That got me thinking: One benefit of the short product cycle in digital photography is the glut of used gear out there. The Nex-7 was all the rage, what, five years ago? So how about it, RFF? What do you think the most bang for the buck is in used digital these days?
A $100 Nikon D100?
A $180 Canon 40D?
A $64 Olympus E-PL-1
The aforementioned Nex7?
Seems like there are a lot of pixels available for the asking. . . So where do you fall on the price performance curve? Love 'em and list 'em.
A $100 Nikon D100?
A $180 Canon 40D?
A $64 Olympus E-PL-1
The aforementioned Nex7?
Seems like there are a lot of pixels available for the asking. . . So where do you fall on the price performance curve? Love 'em and list 'em.
stompyq
Well-known
I would say a 5d classic for $350. See them all the time for that price. Out pf your choices I would avoid the D100.
Addy101
Well-known
The Sony A6000. Current, same price (more or less) as the Nex 7 with better AF.
The Sony A900/850 can be had for a song, the Nikon D700 also.
The older Nikon D7x00 cameras are great. Or the Sony A77 and the Canon EOS 7D and 70D.
Basically, any camera one or two generation old is a bargain.
The Sony A900/850 can be had for a song, the Nikon D700 also.
The older Nikon D7x00 cameras are great. Or the Sony A77 and the Canon EOS 7D and 70D.
Basically, any camera one or two generation old is a bargain.
Addy101
Well-known
Forgot about the Pentax K5 and K5 mark II.
willie_901
Veteran
IQ is not monolithic.
One important aspect of IQ is the-signal to noise ratio of a camera's data stream. Some statisticians define noise as the uncertainty for the data... the difference between the true, but unknowable values (raw file integers) estimates by the measurement.
It turns out SNR is also the prime factor in a camera's dynamic range.
This link displays the dynamic range for a large number of digital bodies. Many of these cameras are older, now inexpensive models. These DR estimates are made using statistical analysis of raw files. This minimizes subjectivity. I populated the chart with a few cameras.
So, if minimal uncertainty in the raw file integer estimates is an acceptable metric for IQ, just pick the camera you can afford with the best DR vs ISO plot.
Note: DR decreases as ISO increases for two reasons. The primary reason is: when the light meter tells you to increase ISO (for a fixed shutter time and aperture), there is less light. Less light means less signal while the electronic noise contribution stays relatively constant. The second reason is some older camera designs(and a few newer ones!) add significant electronic noise as ISO amplification increases. This lowers the SNR even more.
One important aspect of IQ is the-signal to noise ratio of a camera's data stream. Some statisticians define noise as the uncertainty for the data... the difference between the true, but unknowable values (raw file integers) estimates by the measurement.
It turns out SNR is also the prime factor in a camera's dynamic range.
This link displays the dynamic range for a large number of digital bodies. Many of these cameras are older, now inexpensive models. These DR estimates are made using statistical analysis of raw files. This minimizes subjectivity. I populated the chart with a few cameras.
So, if minimal uncertainty in the raw file integer estimates is an acceptable metric for IQ, just pick the camera you can afford with the best DR vs ISO plot.
Note: DR decreases as ISO increases for two reasons. The primary reason is: when the light meter tells you to increase ISO (for a fixed shutter time and aperture), there is less light. Less light means less signal while the electronic noise contribution stays relatively constant. The second reason is some older camera designs(and a few newer ones!) add significant electronic noise as ISO amplification increases. This lowers the SNR even more.
Well, the Sigma DP2 Merrill could be if we are talking IQ under a specific circumstance. Hard to beat that sensor and lens combo (at $400 all in) in good light. Everything else mentioned needs a lens.
ianstamatic
Well-known
in the $200 price range you could go for either one of these.
Panasonic GH1 - awesome little camera, great video. Use any lens with an adaptor. Like how it renders shadow and the BW conversions from this camera are very film like.
Nikon D200 - CCD sensor has better color and skin tones than the d300. This camera is amazingly capable for its price tag.
Panasonic GH1 - awesome little camera, great video. Use any lens with an adaptor. Like how it renders shadow and the BW conversions from this camera are very film like.
Nikon D200 - CCD sensor has better color and skin tones than the d300. This camera is amazingly capable for its price tag.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Canon 5D for amount of IQ per $.
And I have one for sale.
Because I have 5D MKII now.
I see no relation between IQ and MP, but IQ is in FF for me.
With 5D as FF camera you could have classic film era primes, like compact Olympus.Zuiko line on primes for very small price.
And I have one for sale.
Because I have 5D MKII now.I see no relation between IQ and MP, but IQ is in FF for me.
With 5D as FF camera you could have classic film era primes, like compact Olympus.Zuiko line on primes for very small price.
Benjamin Marks
Veteran
Oh, it ain't about my choices. I have all the "obsolete" depreciated cameras I can eat. Just wondered out of the universe of used gear what RFF likes. Don't limit comments to the list above. The D100 is on there because it has the same chip in it as the Epson RD-1 . . . but at 1/10th the price.
ferider
Veteran
I also value DR highly. This website has DR info for many other cameras (this screenshot only shots the top tier, there are many more):
The Sony a850 has basically the same numbers as the a900. And I have seen them go for around US 600 in good used shape. Not bad for FF, with beautiful viewfinder, image stabilizer and affordable/excellent Minolta glass. Certainly more DSLR than I will ever need. Then again, too many Canon/Nikon fans here for this argument to be of much value
Roland.
I used to have an 850, great camera. I opted for the mirrorless version of it (A7-II) as it's also full-frame 24mp, but a much advanced modern sensor, lower noise, higher ISO. Still has IBIS, and much easier to adapt lenses.
I opted for the mirrorless version of it (A7-II) as it's also full-frame 24mp, but a much advanced modern sensor, lower noise, higher ISO. Still has IBIS, and much easier to adapt lenses.
wakarimasen
Well-known
I'd agree with the recommendation for the original 5D. For the cost, and age, it's very good.
wakarimasen
Well-known
Cool comparison: shows just how good some of the older cameras are!
f16sunshine
Moderator
The 5D and 40D are fantastic cameras.
40D has sensor cleaning and live view on board. One stop cleaner although APS-c.
The Fuji XE1 now running down to $150 is pretty sweet. I still use a pair and really appreciate all they can do (great looking images too).
40D has sensor cleaning and live view on board. One stop cleaner although APS-c.
The Fuji XE1 now running down to $150 is pretty sweet. I still use a pair and really appreciate all they can do (great looking images too).
