richard_l
Well-known
Frank's suggestion is excellent. An M3 with a good 50mm lens defines what the 50mm experience is all about (IMO). It might even cause you to change your mind about your favorite focal length.
Best Leica learning kit (newbie question)
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aizan
Veteran
you're the perfect customer for a new (black paint) zeiss ikon and zi lens.
akptc
Shoot first, think later
- Hmm... I was just reading about those at http://www.cameraquest.com/ZM lenses.htm. Have you tried any of the lenses? Is the 50mm zeiss really as good/better than the 50mm summicron?aizan said:
Huck Finn
Well-known
All you want to know about ZM lenses . . .
www.imx.nl/
Look on the right side bar for each of the 3 parts to the series of reviews on these lenses. The "Conclusions" section at the end of Part 3 does a very nice job describing the differences in design philosophy between Leica & Zeiss & how each renders a subject with slight differences. Bottom line is that lenses from both companies are superb; either has greater capabilities than I do as a photographer.
I'm waiting to accumulate the funds to buy my first ZM lens since I just depleted the bank account buying the ZI body. So I can't comment yet on the lenses. However, regarding the camera . . . Based on your comments, you may well like the "feel" of the Leica body better because it's a little heavier, but I suspect that you'll like the ZI viewfinder even more.
www.imx.nl/
Look on the right side bar for each of the 3 parts to the series of reviews on these lenses. The "Conclusions" section at the end of Part 3 does a very nice job describing the differences in design philosophy between Leica & Zeiss & how each renders a subject with slight differences. Bottom line is that lenses from both companies are superb; either has greater capabilities than I do as a photographer.
I'm waiting to accumulate the funds to buy my first ZM lens since I just depleted the bank account buying the ZI body. So I can't comment yet on the lenses. However, regarding the camera . . . Based on your comments, you may well like the "feel" of the Leica body better because it's a little heavier, but I suspect that you'll like the ZI viewfinder even more.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
akptc said:
If you wish to make a distinction, the "best" M viewfinders are the M2 and M3 with the M6TTL at the low end. Having said that, there are no bad M viewfinders, and as Francesco points out it should not be a major consideration in choosing a camera. However, there are some M purists that find these differences somewhat important, which was my reason for mentioning it. I might add that, although I do have a slight preference for my M3, not just for the viewfinder but for the total feel of the camera over my M6TTL, I am perfectly happy with both of them. 🙂
richard_l
Well-known
According to Erwin Puts, the answer is yes. http://www.imx.nl/photosite/comments/c016.html (Scroll down to the Planar-T 2/50 ZM section.)akptc said:
Biggles
My cup runneth amok.
SolaresLarrave said:
If I wasn't such a sucker for the CL's tiny size, I would probably have done as our orange cat did. Genuine M body, in-camera meter, fast Leitz 50... really can't go wrong with that formula. The bespoke blue blazer and grey flannel trousers of cameradom.
Secondhand, easily under two thousand dollars US, I would think.
Huck Finn
Well-known
jaapv said:
You don't have to be a purist to have viewfinder preference be an important factor in making a decision. To each, his own.
Huck
akptc
Shoot first, think later
Thanks everyone again for the advice, it makes it easier (and harder, now that I know more 🙂) to make a decision. My plan is now to handle a few used M's (there is cool used camera store here in Phx) and the Zeiss Icon (no idea where to find one in Phx yet) and take the plunge!
FrankS
Registered User
Good plan. Let the camera pick you by the way it feels in your hands. Good luck!
ChrisN
Striving
As you have recognised the importance of viewfinders, you might be interested in the comparisons made by Stephen Gandy:
http://www.cameraquest.com/leica.htm
http://www.cameraquest.com/leica.htm
akptc
Shoot first, think later
Ha! I cannot believe I've missed that page, I've been on that website several times, thanks for the link, great info.ChrisN said:
N
Nick R.
Guest
FrankS beat me to it. You already have a great 35mm lens on the AF. I'd recommend a 50 and a 28 or a 50 and a 90 to go with whatever Leica you choose.
pdx138
Established
akptc said:
I've never shot with a summicron, so I can't compare to it, but I was finally able to print some 8X10s shot with my new 50mm Planar and it is everything I hoped. Much better than I am... Tons of depth. Ultra smooth transition from out - in focus and from light to dark. Very refined. I love it.
chesapeake1787
Newbie
Dear Andy,
I am no expert.
The first time I bought a rangefinder early 90s, it was a Leica and it was the M4-P used and a 35mm summicron both black. Besides buying a bad body and a lemon of a lens from reputable dealers -- not having a built in meter was the reason for selling the body and lens. I have an excellent sense of exposure, but I really needed it with the M4-P. As well, 35mm was too wide for my taste. The second time around I bought a new Olive Bessa R2 and a latest 50mm summicron chrome with built in hood (the chrome lenses are heavier and not as light). I felt so strongly that Leica would not stand behind its product and it was really not all that it was cracked up to be that I refused to buy another M body. Time and distance changes things though and the M6 classic .85 and the M7 .85 appeal to me these days – though I am not quite ready yet to get burned again.
A starter Leica for under US$2,000. I would buy an earlier version user M6 from a dealer who has CLA’d it (1,000-1,100). I would buy a new or demo 50mm 2.8 Elmar (600-800). The 2.8 is surprisingly distortion free and will yield good contrast for both BW and color. Better yet, have the body and lens adjusted as a pair. And being in Arizona, I would buy some ultra-wide CV glass used with the extra money. Or you might consider a 1.25X with the .72 viewfinder.
Look for a well used and maintained camera and buy new glass. That way if you want to part with it you won’t get singed. When you are more familiar with Leica territory buy a used M3, fourth generation 35mm summicron, or used 35mm summilux asph, or a used 50 summilux. If you are learning Leica stick with an internal meter (my camera was simply funky).
Based on the sizes of your other cameras the collapsible 50 and smaller form factor of the M6 versus the M6 TTL is probably more to your liking.
Firm recommend -- well used early version M6 .72 and new 50mm 2.8 Elmar. And if you jump the most you will lose is $400-500.
Last, you might consider the mf Mamiya 7II and the 65 that was recently advertised here as well. 1,250 was it? That 65 would be awesome in AZ.
My two cents.
Dan
I am no expert.
The first time I bought a rangefinder early 90s, it was a Leica and it was the M4-P used and a 35mm summicron both black. Besides buying a bad body and a lemon of a lens from reputable dealers -- not having a built in meter was the reason for selling the body and lens. I have an excellent sense of exposure, but I really needed it with the M4-P. As well, 35mm was too wide for my taste. The second time around I bought a new Olive Bessa R2 and a latest 50mm summicron chrome with built in hood (the chrome lenses are heavier and not as light). I felt so strongly that Leica would not stand behind its product and it was really not all that it was cracked up to be that I refused to buy another M body. Time and distance changes things though and the M6 classic .85 and the M7 .85 appeal to me these days – though I am not quite ready yet to get burned again.
A starter Leica for under US$2,000. I would buy an earlier version user M6 from a dealer who has CLA’d it (1,000-1,100). I would buy a new or demo 50mm 2.8 Elmar (600-800). The 2.8 is surprisingly distortion free and will yield good contrast for both BW and color. Better yet, have the body and lens adjusted as a pair. And being in Arizona, I would buy some ultra-wide CV glass used with the extra money. Or you might consider a 1.25X with the .72 viewfinder.
Look for a well used and maintained camera and buy new glass. That way if you want to part with it you won’t get singed. When you are more familiar with Leica territory buy a used M3, fourth generation 35mm summicron, or used 35mm summilux asph, or a used 50 summilux. If you are learning Leica stick with an internal meter (my camera was simply funky).
Based on the sizes of your other cameras the collapsible 50 and smaller form factor of the M6 versus the M6 TTL is probably more to your liking.
Firm recommend -- well used early version M6 .72 and new 50mm 2.8 Elmar. And if you jump the most you will lose is $400-500.
Last, you might consider the mf Mamiya 7II and the 65 that was recently advertised here as well. 1,250 was it? That 65 would be awesome in AZ.
My two cents.
Dan
akptc
Shoot first, think later
Dan, thank you, I enjoyed reading your post. At this point I've narrowed my search to an M3, M6, a ZI, and a 50mm lens. Not sure which 50mm yet though, this is a tough one (prices, speed, contradicting reviews, my poor recollection of optics - all make for an exciting hunt 🙂).chesapeake1787 said:
The Mamiya 7II looks like a beatiful camera. Unfortunately for me, I wouldn't know what to do with the film once I took the shot. I think that perhaps one day I might dear to look at medium format, once I have a better idea of what I am doing 😉 )
Cheers,
peter_n
Veteran
I would think about a new Zeiss 50/2 from Cameraquest for $600 (I think) and the newest M6 you can lay your hands on. You should still have some change left over for film. 🙂
akptc
Shoot first, think later
M3+50/f1.4 summilux on ebay
M3+50/f1.4 summilux on ebay
I just saw this body+lens for sale on ebay, it looks pretty good, doesn't it?:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7578474834&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT
M3+50/f1.4 summilux on ebay
I just saw this body+lens for sale on ebay, it looks pretty good, doesn't it?:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7578474834&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT
FrankS
Registered User
It sure does. The seller looks trustworthy. It would be worth keeping an eye on. You do know that the price will usually rise dramatically in the last hours or minutes of the auction and it may be subject to snipers during the last seconds.
N
Nick R.
Guest
Don't forget to check photo.net's Leica list for ads. A M4-P was listed for $675 two days ago. I'm sure that's gone but keep checking.
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