jdos2
Well-known
"Staring at lenses, or looking at them too closely causes defects."
(In reference to someone looking at a piece of dust they can't remove from the front of their lens)
(In reference to someone looking at a piece of dust they can't remove from the front of their lens)
back alley
IMAGES
so what are you saying?
that's NOT TRUE?
joe
that's NOT TRUE?
joe
K
Krasnaya_Zvezda
Guest
I think staring too closely at lenses takes you into the realm of "I didn't really want to know that".
Personal anecdote: (very long story cut short) , ....speaking to my Leica dealer, " And when I looked into the lens with a bright light---- "
"Whoa, " she said, "there's your mistake. Lens makers will tell you to not do that, you will see things you don't want to see. Even the best Noctilux will appear to have flaws and bubbles that don't affect image quality, but will scare you to death."
Turned out the flaws in my Leica lens were not flaws at all, but H2O that had dried on the glass. Hey, I thought I was plenty far away from that busted water main.
My Leica glass is as pure and perfect as if it was made from air---- but I don't stare into it, either.
Personal anecdote: (very long story cut short) , ....speaking to my Leica dealer, " And when I looked into the lens with a bright light---- "
"Whoa, " she said, "there's your mistake. Lens makers will tell you to not do that, you will see things you don't want to see. Even the best Noctilux will appear to have flaws and bubbles that don't affect image quality, but will scare you to death."
Turned out the flaws in my Leica lens were not flaws at all, but H2O that had dried on the glass. Hey, I thought I was plenty far away from that busted water main.
My Leica glass is as pure and perfect as if it was made from air---- but I don't stare into it, either.
P
pradeep1
Guest
In the digital world, this is called pixel peeping. 
rbiemer
Unabashed Amateur
About thirty years ago my brother became a vegitarian because in "health" class we were shown a movie called something like "Where Your Food Comes From" which followed a cow/steer(?) from the pasture through the slaughter house to the grocery store. Our health teacher was a not very closeted sadist. The movie was VERY graphic and was shown every year to all the seventh graders. I wasn't too horrified but I didn't have a hamburger at lunch that day.
Rob
Rob
bmattock
Veteran
I think it is a great point - you can certainly go too far with taking note of every little speck of whatever inside your lenses.
I also think that some people don't go nearly far enough. They breathe on their lens, wipe it with the tail of their shirt, and call it good.
I frequently purchase lenses on eBoy that are described as 'exceptionally clean' or 'mint' or what-have-you - usually glowing superlatives. Yet somehow the seller missed the fungus, or the actual dirt stuck to the glass (did they dig it out of the ground like a turnip?) and so on.
What I *really* hate is the statement "Will not affect images."
Like heck, folks.
Any defect in your lens WILL affect your images. I promise. I guarantee. 100% certain and provable in any court of law.
The only question is TO WHAT EXTENT said defect will affect your images - and what sort of images, and under what circumstances.
Small scratches, especially on the inner lens surfaces, can cause flare. Flare is not always characterized as a big, bright, hexagonal patch on your negs/prints/slides. It can also cause a general degradation of contrast, a 'washing out' effect. If it is minor, you might not even notice it unless you had some comparison - a similar (though unaffected) lens that did not suffer the defect.
Some defects in the film that were caused by a defect in the lens can be compensated for sufficiently to be acceptable - by PhotoShop work, by using a lens hood, by not using that particular lens in bright light, etc. I'm not saying that there are not workarounds available in many circumstances.
In conclusion, though I agree that some people take things to extremes with peering into their lenses for hours on end with 8x loupes, examining the cellular structure of a dust mite and complaining bitterly about flea poop, others seem not to notice huge problems, and in fact to tell others that small scratches, abberrations, and other problems 'don't affect the images at all' - which is totally removed from the truth.
I admit to staring through my favorite lenses with an 8x loupe. That does not stop me from using lenses I like, and sometimes I cannot figure out how a defect I have found causes any problems in the resulting negs - in other words, the damage may be there, but I can't find it for anything. But I surely do enjoy it when I come across a lens that is just about as clean as it could be. It may not be a Leica or a Zeiss, but at least I know it is probably performing at the maximum of it's potential.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
I also think that some people don't go nearly far enough. They breathe on their lens, wipe it with the tail of their shirt, and call it good.
I frequently purchase lenses on eBoy that are described as 'exceptionally clean' or 'mint' or what-have-you - usually glowing superlatives. Yet somehow the seller missed the fungus, or the actual dirt stuck to the glass (did they dig it out of the ground like a turnip?) and so on.
What I *really* hate is the statement "Will not affect images."
Like heck, folks.
Any defect in your lens WILL affect your images. I promise. I guarantee. 100% certain and provable in any court of law.
The only question is TO WHAT EXTENT said defect will affect your images - and what sort of images, and under what circumstances.
Small scratches, especially on the inner lens surfaces, can cause flare. Flare is not always characterized as a big, bright, hexagonal patch on your negs/prints/slides. It can also cause a general degradation of contrast, a 'washing out' effect. If it is minor, you might not even notice it unless you had some comparison - a similar (though unaffected) lens that did not suffer the defect.
Some defects in the film that were caused by a defect in the lens can be compensated for sufficiently to be acceptable - by PhotoShop work, by using a lens hood, by not using that particular lens in bright light, etc. I'm not saying that there are not workarounds available in many circumstances.
In conclusion, though I agree that some people take things to extremes with peering into their lenses for hours on end with 8x loupes, examining the cellular structure of a dust mite and complaining bitterly about flea poop, others seem not to notice huge problems, and in fact to tell others that small scratches, abberrations, and other problems 'don't affect the images at all' - which is totally removed from the truth.
I admit to staring through my favorite lenses with an 8x loupe. That does not stop me from using lenses I like, and sometimes I cannot figure out how a defect I have found causes any problems in the resulting negs - in other words, the damage may be there, but I can't find it for anything. But I surely do enjoy it when I come across a lens that is just about as clean as it could be. It may not be a Leica or a Zeiss, but at least I know it is probably performing at the maximum of it's potential.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
oftheherd
Veteran
rbiemer said:
Sounds like the Sgt Instructor we had in highschool ROTC. Every year he would show a very graphic film on trenchfoot. It included footage of being able to remove dead toes with a forceps. He had a penchant for showing that to the class just before lunch. Most of us had been warned, but lots of kids didn't eat lunch after that class. I don't know why it didn't bother me so much. Maybe having a father who was a gov't meat inspector, and having grown up on a farm, and having seen animals butcher helped.
bmattock
Veteran
Did something happen to this thread? I got an email and when I clicked on the link, it said that my subscription had been removed. Huh?
oftheherd
Veteran
bmattock said:
Did you check the real return address. Sounds like the eb*y seller protective association is on to you for your earlier post about lenses that defy physics. I am like you. If cleaning marks and such don't affect lens' performance, why doesn't the factory put them on all lenses so they will always be equal?
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
Bill - nowadays, there are TWO links in that e-mail. Are you sure you clicked on the first one, not the second one? Sorry if it's a dumb question (it happened to me).bmattock said:
bmattock
Veteran
Pherdinand said:
Ah, you're probably right. In fact, that makes great sense.
Let me tell you what kind of day I'm having.
I went home for lunch - my turn to feed the puppies.
It's raining.
Let the dogs out.
Made myself a bologna sandwich.
Let dogs in.
Wet dogs jump on me, get pants muddy. Gotta meeting after lunch, crud.
Feed dogs.
Try to let dogs back out.
Dogs won't go out in rain.
Finish eating, post on RFF, try to clean muddy paw prints on trousers.
Walk into kitchen, dogs have peed all over the floor.
Clean dishes and floor.
While cleaning floor, trousers give way --- RIP!
Go upstairs, change trousers.
Dogs eat my dessert while I'm upstairs changing.
Put dogs in kennel, set house alarm, go back to work.
Left security badge on dresser at home. CURSE LOUDLY.
Drive back home.
Get badge.
Drive back to work.
Late to meeting.
Wife calls - friend of hers has seen my photographs, wants me to photograph her upcoming wedding.
My head hurts.
Yes, it was probably me clicking the wrong link. I'm an idjit.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
Well, you got a wedding photography "job" out of it! That's good, should be fun!
Dogs are terrible, i always knew that. Man's best friend, blah blah. Better get a cat. Or a hamster.
Dogs are terrible, i always knew that. Man's best friend, blah blah. Better get a cat. Or a hamster.
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
Bill... Sorry about your day!
Can't help but laughing out loud... VERY loud.
Good I'm home alone. And Ben, the cat, doesn't care...
Hey! Look at the bright side: your reputation is going beyond the home boundaries and soon you'll be shooting weddings! Who know... You'll be making the big bucks sometime!!
Keep them coming, Bill!
Can't help but laughing out loud... VERY loud.
Good I'm home alone. And Ben, the cat, doesn't care...
Hey! Look at the bright side: your reputation is going beyond the home boundaries and soon you'll be shooting weddings! Who know... You'll be making the big bucks sometime!!
Keep them coming, Bill!
taffer
void
And also two boiled eggs.
R
Roman
Guest
Pherdinand said:
Obviously you have never shot a wedding.
As much fun as having a tooth pulled (without anesthesia).
Roman
denishr
アナログ侘・&#
Bill, you have my sympathies....
Well, just one of those days.
As for the wedding shoot, I tend to agree with Roman - my worst nightmare is any of my friends asking me to shoot their wedding. Did that just once (or was it twice?), and luckily no one chased me with a shotgun afterwards...
Well, I did one about a year and a half ago - but with a video camera Was a lot easier....
Denis
Well, just one of those days.
As for the wedding shoot, I tend to agree with Roman - my worst nightmare is any of my friends asking me to shoot their wedding. Did that just once (or was it twice?), and luckily no one chased me with a shotgun afterwards...
Well, I did one about a year and a half ago - but with a video camera
Was a lot easier....Denis
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
I've forgot the smiley, sorry.
No, i never shot a wedding.
Actually, i did: my sister's wedding (for my own pleasure), with a Polaroid point-and-shoot zoom. There were about 2 pics that were not too bad. Not too good neither.
No, i never shot a wedding.
Actually, i did: my sister's wedding (for my own pleasure), with a Polaroid point-and-shoot zoom. There were about 2 pics that were not too bad. Not too good neither.