Best Russian RF; Kiev or Zorki?

[louis]

I've seen and handled various models of both Kiev & Zorki. I like the Kiev because it is a more faithful copy of the Contax than the Zorki is of the Leica, and I swear that some of the Kiev's I've seen look almost as well finished as their German counterpart. None of the Zorki's have that Leica look except for the ones that were modified by aftermarketers.

Which is more reliable, better lens, best finish, best range of accesories, etc.

 

[peterc]

Which is more reliable, better lens, best finish, best range of accesories, etc.

I'd say this is all very subjective on most counts.
Both are generally reliable. Each has features that can lead to failure of the shutter.
And for lenses I'd say it's a tie as well. A Jupiter 8 is a jupiter 8 regardless of mount.
The early Kievs had excellent finish, but the Zorki 3M (for example) is a fine machine.
Range of accessories would have to go to the Zorki ... there's the whole range of Leica Thread Mount lenses out there to be used on the Zorki. The Kiev is more limited in this regard.

Peter

 

[GeorgeFH]

I've read that FSU lens in Contax mount tend to have less quality control problems compare to their LSM counterpart. specifically, the LSM Jupiter 9s often have assembly problems. can anyone confirm?

 

[darkkavenger]

I confirm about Kiev having less problems with the lenses. I'm a Kiev fan, definitely! 😀

 

[RML]

It all depends on what you want and like. It seems to me you've already made up your mind. For me things are less clear. I like my Zorki 4 but also my FED-2, and the Kiev 4AM I got not too long ago as well. They're already very pretty and quite useful. But none beat my R-D1.

 

[reagan]

"Best Russian RF; Kiev or Zorki?"

I only have Zorkis and though I've handled/played with a Contax or two, never a Kiev. But Zorkis and Kievs are two totally different beasts, as I'm sure you've already evaluated. So play it safe. Buy [at least] one of each. Then you can personally test drive both without breaking the bank....... for now. 😉 ~ Just a thought ~

 

[ZorkiKat]

I've seen and handled various models of both Kiev & Zorki. I like the Kiev because it is a more faithful copy of the Contax than the Zorki is of the Leica, and I swear that some of the Kiev's I've seen look almost as well finished as their German counterpart. None of the Zorki's have that Leica look except for the ones that were modified by aftermarketers.

Which is more reliable, better lens, best finish, best range of accesories, etc.

Zorki-1 and FED-1 are 95% Leica II clones. They look alike. In terms of compactness, they're hard to beat. They represent the ideals of rangefinderdom- these cameras have the design which enabled candid photography to be possible 🙂 Fits the pocket, compact, goes well in the hands. So small that it's not easily noticed.

Reliable if you get them going right. And should remain that way since there's not much happening inside.

They are as sleuth as a cat 😀


Jay

 

[Zepofan]

Stealing this thread for a moment...

Apart from technical specs and ordinary handling what camera Zorki, Fed or Kiev, would you prefer if you, like me, were wearing glasses? 😎

 

[brians]

I'm not too fond of the "Contax grip" but from what I know, the Kiev is a solid camera. I really prefer my Zorki 4 as my FSU shooter though.

Stealing this thread for a moment...

Apart from technical specs and ordinary handling what camera Zorki, Fed or Kiev, would you prefer if you, like me, were wearing glasses? 😎

All of them have metal rims around the viewfinder. I'd prefer that you put a felt donut or something of the like over the ring so that your glasses don't get scratched. BUT! If you don't mind taking your glasses off for a sec, I'd prefer the Zorki 4. It's got a diopter adjustment. The FED 2 does too, but I find the dim rangefinder a bit unnerving.

 

[kzim56]

Zepofan,

I have to take my glasses off to use either one. The Zorki 4 has a pretty good diopter for vision correction. Not sure about the earlier Zorki's. I don't have a Kiev anymore but I believe there's no diopter at all. Seems glasses and FSU rangefinders don't mix well.

 

[knorbek]

Well, it's really hard to decide. Contax copy Kiev is OK no matter the type, but the interiors are sooooo complicated that every time I use it I'm afraid something will suddenly break down (i've already had three of them). And I don't think I would ever dare to repair it by myself. This stops me from being comfortable with the camera. I also have three Zorkis-1 which also like to break down from time to time, but all it takes to put them back to order is some patience and Maizenberg's book. that's why my vote goes for Zorki-1.

 

[Jocko]

Stealing this thread for a moment...

Apart from technical specs and ordinary handling what camera Zorki, Fed or Kiev, would you prefer if you, like me, were wearing glasses? 😎

In my experience the following cameras are "glasses friendly" - that is, I can see the full area of the viewfinder whilst wearing glasses (and I'm Very shortsighted!) :

Fed 1, Zorki 1, Zorki 2, Fed 2, Zorki 5, Zorki 6, Kiev 1 to 4, FED 5c

The Fed 4 (and I assume the 3 and 5) were just about usable.

The Zorki 3 and 4 were complete no-nos - excellent finders but useless with glasses - you cannot see much of the frame.

As to what one prefers... I think the best finder overall is in the Zorki 5 and 6, but finders alone do not make the camera - My favorites are the FED 1, Fed 2 and Kiev.

Whatever you buy, the finder frames will scratch your lenses horribly - so be sure to get aki-asahi's cheap and extremely effective spectacle protectors -http://www.aki-asahi.com/store/ 🙂

 

[reagan]

Agreed with Jocko here as far as being glasses friendly Zorkis. However, Zorki.3, 4, 5 diopter adjustment does allow me to focus and frame with glasses off if I desire, which I do half the time. Without this little lever, the glasses would have to stay on.

But on any of the Zorkis, I often snap on a cheapo tele-wide brightline finder just for the easier bigger view. (I keep several, so there's one handy when I get the urge.)

 

[Jocko]

Agreed with Jocko here as far as being glasses friendly Zorkis. However, Zorki.3, 4, 5 diopter adjustment does allow me to focus and frame with glasses off if I desire, which I do half the time. Without this little lever, the glasses would have to stay on.

But on any of the Zorkis, I often snap on a cheapo tele-wide brightline finder just for the easier bigger view. (I keep several, so there's one handy when I get the urge.)

Undoubtedly so. Unfortunately I'm so short-sighted that the dioptre correction makes nary a difference - and I generously assume this goes for everyone else! I'd also add that one of the least recognised virtues of the glasses-friendly Soviet multifinder is the large, bright 50mm frame. So there's always a way round these little problems 🙂

 

[wyk_penguin]

I confirm about Kiev having less problems with the lenses. I'm a Kiev fan, definitely! 😀

I concur. That's simply because there is no second helical to mess up. For a Kiev mount Jupiter 9, there is only the obviously correct way to reassemble it. 😀 As for the LTM J-9, I've never had my hands on it, but rumour says both helicals have 2 (I have heard 4) entry points, so that is 2X2 = 4 ways to reassemble the lens, out of which only one is correct. :bang:

I strongly believe that if you drop a Kiev on the floor, the camera is going to break before the RF gets misaligned. I could not say that on FEDs.

The big big problem of the Kiev is its shutter. The metal shutter has more inertia, and thus is more noisy. Also, the shutter ribbons are a pain to find for replacement. I have been (ab)using mine for 2 years - not broken ribbons yet. :angel:

Hence, my vote is definitely for the Kiev.

 

[GeorgeFH]

I concur. That's simply because there is no second helical to mess up. For a Kiev mount Jupiter 9, there is only the obviously correct way to reassemble it. 😀 As for the LTM J-9, I've never had my hands on it, but rumour says both helicals have 2 (I have heard 4) entry points, so that is 2X2 = 4 ways to reassemble the lens, out of which only one is correct. :bang:

great, thanks for providing a rational reason to back up what was only a rumor to me.

I strongly believe that if you drop a Kiev on the floor, the camera is going to break before the RF gets misaligned. I could not say that on FEDs.

why is that?

The big big problem of the Kiev is its shutter. The metal shutter has more inertia, and thus is more noisy. Also, the shutter ribbons are a pain to find for replacement. I have been (ab)using mine for 2 years - not broken ribbons yet. :angel:

Hence, my vote is definitely for the Kiev.

my Kiev is actually much quieter than my Zorki 4k. you can definitely feel the inertia or the heavy shutter, but it is moving up and down, so it actually bothers me less. the horizontal moving Zorki shutter knock the diopter lever out of position every time 😛 plus the sound of Kiev's shutter is unlike the sound another other camera makes; I love that swish.

 

[varjag]

Both Kiev metal shutter and Zorki/FED cloth shutters can be pretty quiet if well-made. I handled a FED-2 with very 'soft' shutter action, and an early Kiev-4 where at 1/125 and beyond you could hardly hear the shutter at all.

I would agree that rangefinders in Soviet LTM cameras are more prone to misalignment. Kievs have RFs engaged directly with focusing helical and use large 'monolithic' prism, while LTMs use simpler design with mirror and (by necessity) the cam coupling lever. It often takes just screwing in a lens set to infinity to throw such RF off alignment.

 

[ruben]

Zorki-1 and FED-1 are 95% Leica II clones.
Jay

The Kiev did not start as 95% (!) Soviet clone of the Contax. It started by the end of WW2 as the continued manufacturing of the Contax camera in the Soviet Union, with original Contax Zeiss engineers, workers, machines, glasses materials, original contax pieces, etc. This is a key difference explaining Knorbek's complain that

"...the interiors are sooooo complicated that every time I use it I'm afraid something will suddenly break down... "

It was a decade afterwards that the Kievs started a slow process of Soviet simplification, or if you like - Zorkization, and became a sort of "clones".

But even then, the original sample in the case of the Kievs, was far more advanced and complex than that of Zorkis and Feds, and the simplification much less agressive than the last two.

Cheers,

Ruben

 

[floydking]

I used to own a Zorki 4K, but I found the speed dial so awkward to use that I got rid of the camera. A neighbour of mine had a Fed 4 and that was much easier to use. I don't know if the 4K is typical, but I certainly wouldn't buy another one.

 

[darkkavenger]

My Kiev-2A from 1956 is a sort of daily workhorse and though I am usually not throwing it against walls, it's in no way a shelf queen. It works accurately and makes no troubles at all... if something breaks inside, I'll have it repaired, simply 🙂