Best Russian RF?

[Todd.Hanz]

O.K., I've seen some posts in the gallery taken with the Fed-2 (Taffer) and other Russian RF's and the results are really nice. I have always heard the Russian RF's have unreliable quality and it's basically a "crap shoot" when you buy one.
My questions are:

1. How reliable are they?
2. Which model is the best user?
3. What lenses wide-tele are best?

Todd

 

[rover]

I think you can add;

What dealer should you do business with?

There were a couple threads early on at this site. I believe there is a Forum for Russian Rangefinders, when you are in there change the view box to see all threads since the beginning and I am sure you will find them.

 

[pshinkaw]

I’ve got over 30 of these guys in my collection now, most of them purchased directly from the Ukraine and Russia, but a few acquired from US vendors or disappointed US auction buyers. Some lessons I have learned as an American buyer:

The overwhelming majority of the Ukrainian and Russian auction Sellers are good people, but many know little about cameras and deal in a multitude of goods. Some do not understand that a take-up spool is an essential part of some cameras, and some do not read or write English/American well enough to figure out what you are asking them. Instead they rely on translation software.

Getting money into Russia and Ukraine to pay for goods is more complex than buying from Canada but easier than buying from Great Britain. Never send cash. Bidpay has high fees. Look for Vendors who use WesternBid in Minneapolis as a payment agent or the occasional one who has a Paypal account (usually in the name of a third person in a third country) Don’t do 3 or 4-way transactions where you pay for the Seller’s purchases in the US with your Paypal to offset the payment you owe him/her in the foreign country.

Always remember that these cameras, especially the rangefinders, are OLD. They range from 50 plus years of age to 25 years of age and have all of the problems that cameras of this age will have.

There were periods of time in the USSR when good materials were not readily available. Quality of manufacture suffered as a result. Chrome is not always smooth and shiny, plastics become brittle or gummy, metals gears may be too soft or worse yet, soft metal gears may be matched up with hard metal gears.

Quality control varied from good to non-existent. It varied between manufacturers and across time periods. If you’ve ever purchased a brand new Japanese camera and taken it out of the box, don’t expect this experience with a camera made in the USSR.

Soviet cameras (other than the German designed Kiev) tended to have simpler designs and engineering than their German counterparts. They were designed to be easier and less costly to manufacture and repair. Concomitantly, they are a little less user friendly. The Kiev on the other hand is neither simple nor user friendly.

All of the 35mm rangefinders are potentially good cameras, with the potential to have good lenses. The Soviets were almost manic about making good quality glass. But they were not able to put most of that glass in mounts which match the best of the West Germans. For 35mm cameras all of the 50-58mm lenses made after the war can be good lenses if they were built properly and cared for well. The 35mm Jupiter-12 is also good. The 85mm Jupiter-9 is good, but is occasionally in bad mechanical condition because it is hard to work on. Those bad examples have usually suffered from poor maintenance and improper maintenance. I have no experience with Soviet lenses longer than 85mm except for medium format lenses on the Moskva and Kiev 60.

As for 35mm rangefinder bodies, once you get past the condition and wear and tear issues, are good designs. There are a lot of personal preferences involved, because some viewfinders are significantly different from others; film loading varies between bottom loaders, removable backs and hinged backs; and some have neckstrap lugs while others do not.

If you are going to buy from Ukraine of Russia, plan on eventually buying more than one in order to get one that is 100% functional.

Don’t buy cheap. After you figure in shipping, repairs and downtime, the higher cash outlay for one that is imported by someone else and that is 100% functional could become a bargain. I have dealt with Robert and CJ at Russianplaza. They have been very good to me. Mike Fourman at Kievcamera is also very reputable. He answers the phone, but takes longer to answer e-mails. Call him rather than e-mailing. Yuri Boguslavsky at Fedka has a very high reputation, but I have not actually purchased from him. Your net cost in purchasing from one these guys could be no higher than buying cheaply in Russia or the Ukarine and sorting out all of the unexpected complications. Also, Russianplaza has shipped to me in Texas buy Priority Mail. It typically takes 2 days from Hollywood to Texas.

-Paul

 

[chenick]

Yes!! I'm warming to the idea of a Russian RF!
Saw some wide angle street shots and though "Must get a wide angle camera"

First search pulled up a Ricoh GR21, (21mm point and shoot, but very expensive)
Then I bid on an 28mm basic SLR, which I'm glad to say I didn't win. heavy & clunky!
So... can any one recommend a Russian RF which will take a nice 21 or 28mm lens?

Oh, and I don't wan't the hassle of messing with take up spools or making film leaders. (I know that restricts me a bit)

I'm thinking Fed 5? Any suggestions?
A meter (working) would be nice too! Are all the meters selenium based?

Thanks guys!

-Nick

 

[iMacfan]

I'd recommend a Zorki 4k. I've got one, which I bought from a classic camera dealer, which works pretty well. The Feds there did not look as user friendly and I did not like the rangefinders as much (The Feds have circular RF patches, while the Zorki has a rectangular one, albeit with slightly fuzzy edges).

Another bonus is that these come from the latter era of Soviet cameras, so are 'only' about 30 years old.

From what I have heard, the wide-angles are slow and poor, with the best lenses being the 50mm (many configs were available, this has been discussed elsewhere on the site), and the Jupiter-9 85mm/f2, from which I'll get some pics back soon.

By the way, the GR21 is expensiver, but the GR1 series, with an excellent 28/2.8 is about half the price. It's the only 'proper' camera I own, and the results are always superb.

Hope this helps,

David

 

[Laika]

>1. How reliable are they?

I have many Soviet RF's and have been using them for just over a year now, I have yet to have one break down thru use. On the other hand I have had several arrive not fully functional i.e. pin holes in the shutter curtain, shutter not operating correctly due to grease/lube going thick, dirty viewfinder, RF out of alignment etc. Most of the problem cameras have been because of me looking for a bargains (you get what you pay for, yeah I know) or buying older rarer models (less to choice from) or taking pot luck with a new seller. Btw: All my cameras have come out of Russia from ebay auctions. IMO its better get one that listed as "like new" or "excellent" by one of the better sellers than to try and save $10 and get a bargain camera that may not be the best as a user.


>2. Which model is the best user?

IMO,
(With speeds down to 1 sec) - FED3, Zorki 3M

(with speeds down to 1/30) - FED2, Zorki 6

FED3(b) is the best bang for your $$ IMO


>3. What lenses wide-tele are best?

This is just from my experience and what I've picked up form web posts.

Best wide is the Jupiter 12, there are Soviet 28mm & 20mm's as well but for the prices they go for (if you can find one) you would be better off getting a CV lens for a user. I've got a chrome J12 that I really like, nice images.

For standard lenses most of the 50's are good I've found unless they have "cleaning marks" (more like rubbed for years with steel wool 😉) ... IMO pick of the bunch are Jupiter 8 (f2) & Ind 61 L/D (f2.8). I've also had very good results with the Ind 26m, Ind 22, Ind 50. The only real hit and miss 50mm is the fast Jupiter 3 (f1.5), some are great and some are rubbish.

For Tele's you have the Jupiter 9 (85mm/f2), its a great lens but lots of them have focus problems from being stripped and put back together wrong and are very hard to put right. There is also a 135mm but I don’t have one and haven’t heard much from users on it.

As far as ebay sellers go I've found the soviet sellers to be good people to deal with in general. While I don't like to recommend sellers "alex-photo" and "cupog" come to mind as good people to deal with.

Good Luck

 

[DickS]

I like the various FED and Kiev cameras. FED is based on the Leica camera but have a much easier way of loading film the early Leicas did.

The Kiev is based on the Contax camera and has a very good rangefinder system.

I am referring to the 35mm cameras. Both FEDs based on the Leica camera and the Kiev based on the Contax have interchangeable lenses, at least I think all models do.

You can buy many different lenses and I really couldn't recommend any particular one.

The Kiev covering isn't the best in the world but it doesn't affect the operation of the camera.

The only Zorki I have works all right but it has the Leica way of loading film where you have to trim the end of the film. The film loads but it is a nuisance to load the film into the camera.

Dick

Dick

 

[Laika]

>So... can any one recommend a Russian RF which will take a nice 21 or 28mm lens?

Just about any of the Soviet RF's (FED & Zorki) will take LTM lenses, add a VC wide to one of the bodies I mentioned above. Note: If someone is thinking of a FED2 make sure you get a later model with the high acc shoe so a finder can be fitted without problems.

>Oh, and I don't wan’t the hassle of messing with take up spools or making film leaders. (I know that restricts me a bit)

The FED3(b) has a fixed spool and uses standard film leaders, there are also a few others like the FED 5 you mention. It’s a bit big and ugly IMO, but functional never the less.

 

[pshinkaw]

If you are going to "point and shoot", you can also buy a 28mm T-mount lens, LTM T-mount adapter. and LTM Russian camera of your choice. The camera then becomes just a light tight box with a shutter.

-Paul

 

[Doug]

Some good input here; thanks!

I've bought from Fedka.com, and Yuri is good to deal with. I had trouble with light leaks and shutter problems in the Kiev 4a and sent two back. For the third try he ran a roll of film through it and include the prints & negs with the camera to show it was working ok. 🙂

I got a Jupiter-12 (35mm f/2.8) too, from RussianPlaza, which is a very nice lens. So's the 50mm Jupiter-8M.

But I also got another Kiev 4a from KievCamera that also has serious shutter problems. They weren't responsive to my contact efforts, so I'm looking for a US-based repair shop that will do a good reasonable job on it. Suggestions?

 

[wierdcollector]

I'd have to agree with most of the opinions already provided. Pshinkaw has the most and probably best info. I have 9 Feds, Mir, Zorkis and sadly, no more Kiev. (I also have 14 Zenit SLR's but that's another story) In my experience, having only bought from 1 Russian seller and the rest from North America, I'd say you're better off with a Fed 5 or variant as it is newer, has a fixed take up spool, requires no cutting of a leader, and other than the looks being a matter of taste, it functions as well or better than the older models, just takes a bit of getting used to ie. shutter cocking/film advance lever rather than knob, etc. Lenses are readily available, fit all the other Feds/Zorkis if you decide to add another camera later, focuses nicely via the double image rf and if need arises, makes a formidable club or hammer for self defense LOL.

 

[pshinkaw]

I have used:

Sorin Marcu, owner of
Eurotech Camera Service
1217 S. Lamar Blvd.
Austin, TX 78704

Voice: (512) 479-5090
Fax: (512) 479-0282

He was trained in Rumania and has experience with Soviet era equipment. I've been happy with his work.

-Paul

 

[wierdcollector]

Thanks Paul, since Oleg abruptly retired, I've been sitting on two or three cameras and lenses I needed to have fixed. Sure miss his work, but I guess it's time to move on to another repair tech.

 

[taffer]

There are really few things to add to all the good advices above, so instead I'll tell you my story 🙂

Well, my baptism with FSU rangefinders (and with rangefinders in general) came from Jim Blazik's site:

http://www.geocities.com/fzorkis

Todd, take a look at the pages on FSU rangefinders history (for Fed and Zorki cameras) and also at the favorite shooters section, it's really well written, fun to read and informative.

Indeed, I've been almost following his favorite shooters line, by acquiring firstly a Fed-2 from Anya, then a Zorki 3M and a Kiev 4am directly from e*ay. I've been lucky enough to get 3 hits out of 3, and they all keep working well to the date. Lately I've acquired a couple more Kievs, 'cos is a model I like a lot, and being just serviced by Oleg, they perform really smoothly.

It's difficult to recommend a 'first' one (if you end liking it then you won't stop getting more and more 🙂 ), but probably the key is getting a good one from a reputated seller and as Laika said don't try to save $10 for a bargain as you get what you pay for.

I'd like to try a Fed-3 someday (either the a or b version), but hey, you must leave something for the future 🙂

Good luck with the selection ! Remember also that on most knob wind cameras, you must wind film (and hence cock the shutter) before changing shutter speeds, it's sort of a 'gremlin' rule (don't feed them after midnight!).

Oscar

 

[Todd.Hanz]

Allright, I'm a little overwhelmed by the response. It would seem that the majority of the folks here have at least dabbled in the Russian Rangefinder cameras, if not so gone all out to collect/use 'em.
I looked at the FED-2, Kiev 4am, Zorki and feel the need to add one to my bag. I'll let yall know when it happens, tahnks for all the info.

Todd

 

[back alley]

some of you guys really are waaaay into the fsu camera thing!
i too am somewhat overwhelmed but also glad we have such a resource here.

which leads me to my question.
i just bought a 55/2.8 fed lens from a guy in vancouver.
problem is i can't find anything in any site that matches this description. the closest thing i found is the industar 61 ld, but the seller says it's a fed lens.
can someone help me out here. i'm mostly looking for some info till i actually get the lens in my sweaty little hands, put it on a camera and see what it can do.

thanks,
joe

 

[Doug]

Thanks for the repair reference, Paul!

 

[taffer]

Todd, only one more thing, I remember being amazed of how easy and comfortable was to use my G-III Canonet when I got it, and mainly when comparing it with my FSU RFs.

But that's not a fair comparison at all, as they are two very different worlds, each one with pros and cons. A fed, a zorki, a kiev, they all require to change the 'cpu' a bit in order to enjoy them completely and I always find it refreshing when after some time using a FSU one I come back to my Oly SP, Canonet or Hi-matic and viceversa.

It's all about using and comparing, but luckily as they are pretty cheap, there's not a real need to choose, so you can use them all.

Joe, the Industars usually feature a FED logo on the front, so maybe that's the reason why the seller tells you it's a fed lens. OTH, maybe there's a collapsible FED 55/2.8 😕 I'd say it's a I 61 (or the L/D), as the I26M was marked as a 52/2.8, you can see both lenses here:

http://homepage.mac.com/mattdenton/photo/cameras/industar_relubing/index.html

I suppose you don't have a picture to show us, no ? 😉

 

[back alley]

not a good one - from ebay ad.

joe

 

[pshinkaw]

It's an Industar-61L/D, probably original equipment from a Fed-5. It's a very sharp lens which has exceptional contrast. The name "Industar61L/D" is in Cyrillic characters while the "Fed"logo is in Roman characters. That might explain why the Seller insisted that it is a Fed lens. Sometimes they require disassembly and lubrication in order to work smoothly. There are a couple of Web sites with illustrated instructions for this model. I think Matt Denton's is one of them. After you get it and if you decide to CLA it, let me know and I'll post the references.

-Paul