Best "vintage look" rangefinder lenses of all time

What are the best rangefinder lenses (Leica, Canon,Voigtlander, Nikon, Zeiss etc.) for capturing images with the vintage look? Some are well known classics ;others are great buys you might not have thought of. I welcome your nominations and I'll be happy to share my own. Just ask the professor-:)
 
It would be nice if somebody could explain what this "vintage look" is. Faded, blurry, men in hats? ;)

...then you're looking for an old 90 Thambar.

I am partial to the Sonnar look of the Nikkor 50/1.4 LTM at close range. The Summer and its successors are plagued by scratched soft front elements and permanent haze that I've been afraid to test my luck. Got burned with a 35 Summicron 8-element copy whose haze was not removable.

BTW

If someone can help me understand what I'm supposed to see in the Tessar formula that I'm missing. I owned a Nikkor 45/2.8 some years back and couldn't figure out what the charm was.
 
What is the vintage look?

What is the vintage look?

It would be nice if somebody could explain what this "vintage look" is. Faded, blurry, men in hats? ;)

Trying to describe the "vintage look" reminds me of the story of the Supreme Court justice who was asked to define "pornography." He famously replied,"I can't tell you exactly what it is, but I sure know it when I see it." Certainly vintage props like a cloche or fedora hat, a chemise, a long string of pearls, a double-breasted suit with a vest, antique furniture and furnishings, classic poses, dark lipstick, Hollywood lighting etc. can all contribute to the vintage look of an image. So can adding effects in post production including sepia tones, visible grain, darkened corners (vignetting) and distressing the image to give the look of an old print that's been stored for decades in a shoebox. However what we're talking about here is the "vintage look" captured or imparted by the lens itself. In such images the lens renders people, objects, and scenery with a rounded, natural, 3-dimensional feeling that seems to make the subjects "live" in the space they occupy--they called this "plasticity" or "luminosity" back in the day. Vintage look images also have smooth tonal gradation, pleasing bokeh where any out-of-focus objects in the foreground and background of the main subjects retain their original shapes. Vintage look images can be soft and dreamy, but they can also be exquisitely sharp. Indeed, vintage look images often combine exceptional detail with relatively low contrast, especially if they've been shot with uncoated lenses. Yes, all these descriptions and impressions are inherently subjective, but that's the beauty of describing what you see and expressing your reactions rather than taking the analytical approach which results in MTF graphs and resolution readouts that are commendably accurate but totally devoid of emotion.
 
Trying to describe the "vintage look" reminds me of the story of the Supreme Court justice who was asked to define "pornography." He famously replied,"I can't tell you exactly what it is, but I sure know it when I see it." Certainly vintage props like a cloche or fedora hat, a chemise, a long string of pearls, a double-breasted suit with a vest, antique furniture and furnishings, classic poses, dark lipstick, Hollywood lighting etc. can all contribute to the vintage look of an image. So can adding effects in post production including sepia tones, visible grain, darkened corners (vignetting) and distressing the image to give the look of an old print that's been stored for decades in a shoebox. However what we're talking about here is the "vintage look" captured or imparted by the lens itself. In such images the lens renders people, objects, and scenery with a rounded, natural, 3-dimensional feeling that seems to make the subjects "live" in the space they occupy--they called this "plasticity" or "luminosity" back in the day. Vintage look images also have smooth tonal gradation, pleasing bokeh where any out-of-focus objects in the foreground and background of the main subjects retain their original shapes. Vintage look images can be soft and dreamy, but they can also be exquisitely sharp. Indeed, vintage look images often combine exceptional detail with relatively low contrast, especially if they've been shot with uncoated lenses. Yes, all these descriptions and impressions are inherently subjective, but that's the beauty of describing what you see and expressing your reactions rather than taking the analytical approach which results in MTF graphs and resolution readouts that are commendably accurate but totally devoid of emotion.


I really cannot see much here that should not be possible to achieve with a "modern" lens, so why call it vintage? Why not just use some of the words that you wrote here to describe any picture? Those words are not devoid of emotion and are perfectly suited to describe an image without resorting to cold analytical thinking. Good pictures are all about emotion, but the problem is that all of us "read" a picture differently. An image that for some represents the "good old days" can fill others with horror because they lived back then, and those days were far from good. I think the word vintage is better suited to old cars and wine than for describing an image.
 
The Summar is also a nice lens for a vintage look.

U3565I1184521795.SEQ.0.jpg

That is a fabulous shot, Raid! Perfect!
 
Perhaps this lens would qualify: the Voigtlander Collapsible Classic Heliar 2/50. It was exclusively produced for the 2006 Voigtlander Bessa
R2M and R3M 250th anniversary sets. 800 lenses were produced in chrome and 1700 were produced in black. I took this picture with the Epson
R-D1 and I suppose its sensor contributes to the 'vintage' or 'classic' look.


 
Vintage look images can be soft and dreamy, but they can also be exquisitely sharp. Indeed, vintage look images often combine exceptional detail with relatively low contrast, especially if they've been shot with uncoated lenses.

I really cannot see much here that should not be possible to achieve with a "modern" lens, so why call it vintage? Why not just use some of the words that you wrote here to describe any picture? Those words are not devoid of emotion and are perfectly suited to describe an image without resorting to cold analytical thinking. Good pictures are all about emotion, but the problem is that all of us "read" a picture differently. An image that for some represents the "good old days" can fill others with horror because they lived back then, and those days were far from good. I think the word vintage is better suited to old cars and wine than for describing an image.

I think you missed Jason's technical explanation, which I've quoted here.

Modern lenses can't achieve "the vintage looks" - it's physics first and foremost, emotion and storytelling spooling off that.

For some reason, my earlier post on page 1 (link here) where I answered the question "What is this vintage look?" was ignored. I essentially say the same thing as Jason: vintage lenses "create low-contrast images where the tonal gradation rolls off gently into the highlights and shadows, and the midtones dominate".

For those who doubt the physics, Sean Reid calls these "sunny day lenses" (as they tame highlights and shadows in bright sun). You can read more in the following link, where he shows results from lens tests comparing modern and vintage lenses: https://luminous-landscape.com/fast-...he-epson-r-d1/
 
Perhaps this lens would qualify: the Voigtlander Collapsible Classic Heliar 2/50.

I have this lens, it is a very good lens, sharp and all that, but it is absolutely not a classic lens. It is the most modern performing 50mm lens that I have ever seen.

What most classic lenses have, is a "curved" plane of sharpness. Often when you focus on a subject in the middle of the image, you'll see to your surprise that not only the object on which you focused in the center is sharp, but also the corners of the image with objects far away, trees and such. So the plane of sharpness is curved.

Not so with the collapsible Heliar. The plane of focus is 100% flat.

Erik.
 
I think you missed Jason's technical explanation, which I've quoted here.

Modern lenses can't achieve "the vintage looks" - it's physics first and foremost, emotion and storytelling spooling off that.

For some reason, my earlier post on page 1 (link here) where I answered the question "What is this vintage look?" was ignored. I essentially say the same thing as Jason: vintage lenses "create low-contrast images where the tonal gradation rolls off gently into the highlights and shadows, and the midtones dominate".

For those who doubt the physics, Sean Reid calls these "sunny day lenses" (as they tame highlights and shadows in bright sun). You can read more in the following link, where he shows results from lens tests comparing modern and vintage lenses: https://luminous-landscape.com/fast-...he-epson-r-d1/


According to Jason, "all these descriptions and impressions are inherently subjective". According to you this a technical feature. What you do agree on is that these are old lenses with a certain "flaw". That's a good enough explanation for me, but are you also implying that the choice of film, developer, printing and paper (or scanning and post) has nothing to do with this "look"?
 
According to Jason, "all these descriptions and impressions are inherently subjective". According to you this a technical feature. What you do agree on is that these are old lenses with a certain "flaw". That's a good enough explanation for me, but are you also implying that the choice of film, developer, printing and paper (or scanning and post) has nothing to do with this "look"?
I agree entirely with you: the lens is just one ingredient in the creation of a photograph - albeit an important one that affects the "drawing" of the image and often cannot be replicated or substituted (e.g. contrast is easy to add, less so to remove in a realistic way, and the same goes for flare and other aberrations).

However, this thread is only about the lens... And if we consider just the lens, I believe that lenses from different eras draw differently. The turning point was the 60s–70s, with huge advances in technology (chemistry for glass/coatings, computers for optics design), and the replacement of European and American camera manufacturers by Japanese ones. Both of these developments marked a sea-change for lenses: the former reduced aberrations and flare, the latter imposed the Japanese aesthetic for high-contrast photographic images.
 
I have this lens, it is a very good lens, sharp and all that, but it is absolutely not a classic lens. It is the most modern performing 50mm lens that I have ever seen.

What most classic lenses have, is a "curved" plane of sharpness. Often when you focus on a subject in the middle of the image, you'll see to your surprise that not only the object on which you focused in the center is sharp, but also the corners of the image with objects far away, trees and such. So the plane of sharpness is curved.

Not so with the collapsible Heliar. The plane of focus is for 100% flat.

Erik.

I have the first version Heliar 50/2. It is not collapsible. Is it different optically from the collapsible one?

I agree with you on the curved plane of sharpness.
 
Erik: In the "other RFF thread" on the replica Cron, the replica shows more sharpness in the background than the sharpness shown by the Cron.
 
All I have to do is to take images with Summarit-M 35 2.5 ASPH on M4-2 and with Ilford HP5+, develop them in HC-110 and print in DR.
Many people who have looked at those prints are saying - "it feels like it was taken decades ago".

Sorry to burst gearheads bubble here.

Maybe that is the vintage photographer look :)
 
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