Beutler Questions

[raytoei@gmail.com]

Hi,

I am new to Beutler. I developed 2 rolls this past Saturday, one in Trix-400 in 1+1+10 and in Tmax 400-120 in 1+1+8.

Not sure what to make of it, I observe that at iso 400, it isn't fine grain, in fact the label says medium grain. But while grain has increased ( as compared to other developers), the sharpness goes up. The images looks as if Photoshop "Unsharp Mask" has been applied. The acutance level makes it sharper than rodinal.

Question: Does the effect change (acutance) if the dilution were different and/or if slower speed films were used (eg. 100 iso).

here's an example in Tri-x, exposed at 200 but developed at 400.

thanks

 

[Tom A]

Beutler is not a fine grain developer. It is a high acutance developer that will accentuate edges. I do use it for TriX and then usually @ 1:1:8/11-11.30 minutes. With Tmax400 you might need to give it one more minute.
The 1:1:10 mix is more suitable for slow films (Acros/Plus/X/Pan F) as the inherent finer grain holds down the "roughness".
Beutler also gives you either "box speed" or even slightly higher speed (Tri X@ 640/600 - with the penalty of grain).
The formula was concocted by Willi Beutler for Leica in the 50's - as the means to show off the quality of Leica lenses and enlargers.
I find that films like Acros/+X works very well with a 1:1:10 @ 7 minutes and rated at box-speed.
It is very sensitive to agitation - if you over agitate, the contrast shoots up and the grain gets a bit "clumpy". I do 30 sec initially and then two inversions every 60 sec.
There is a Flickr site "Beutler A +B" with some samples - but as with all new soups - experience will tell you what will work.

 

[jpa66]

Hello. While I'm not familiar with Beutler, I'm fairly certain that Tom A here on the forum has a lot of experience with it. You might want to try contacting him.

 

[jpa66]

Tom,

That was quick 🙂

 

[Tom A]

If you go to our Flickr site and tag "Beutler" there are multiple samples of various films done with Beutler. If you go to "all sizes" you can take them up to 1200x800 size and it will give you some idea how they look.
I make my own Beutler from scratch. Easy and cheap too. It stores fairly well as it is a 2 part developer (at least 4-6 weeks).
It is also my "test" developer with any new or unknown film. Quick roll, bracketed exposures and 1:1:8 for 11 min. Easy to extrapolate a useful time/Dilution from that.

 

[raytoei@gmail.com]

Tom, jpa66,

thanks much for your replies. Especially on +X. I like the use of this for documentary but am undecided on whether the grain/ acutance is a bit much head and shoulder portrait especially in 400 films. I am referring to 35mm format. In the 120 format, this doesn't become an issue.

thanks again I will be testing it on slower films.

raytoei

 

[raytoei@gmail.com]

Here are some Beutler images and the development times. The two developers which I am using quite a bit until my XTOL arrives are Beutler and PQ Universal. Both are interesting developers.

"Testing Fill Flash"
Agfa 100, Beutler in 1+1+8 at 4mins@30C (roughly 8mins@20C)
M4-P / 35f2

"Wear Spectacles Day"
Fomapan ei400 Beutler 7.5min@30c (roughly 15mins at 20C) in 1+1+8. Rolleiflex 2.8e

 

[mgd711]

I like the results but the Fomapan has a nice 3D feel to it.

30c is HOT for developing, I stick my chemicals in the freezer for 20 min's before developing film. It's normally enough to take the temperature down to just below 20c.

 

[raytoei@gmail.com]

mgd711, i sort of standardized on 30c as my developing time. I am betting that modern film can handle the temperature better. My 2 issues i have is that a. i do not know if there are any long term effects on the film, and b. i have to recompute/test the development time.

But it is nice to halve the dev time as a starting point at 30c.

raytoei

 

[Fotohuis]

Efke films are doing very well in Beutler A+B.

Here an example of 35mm Efke 25 film in Beutler 1+1+10 for 7:00 minutes at 20C.
Due to the very soft emulsion Efke films are not recommended to develop over 20C. In sequence of higher acutance: Rodinal - Beutler - FX-1.
About making Beutler A+B:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/1104010@N24/discuss/72157620677933656/

 

[raytoei@gmail.com]

fotohuis: wow. very sharp indeed.

 

[Fotohuis]

fotohuis: wow. very sharp indeed

Leica M7 + Summarit 2,5/75mm ....... 🙂

 

[Nokton48]

Those Are Quite Nice I Think.

Those Are Quite Nice I Think.

Mixed up some Beutler, I need to get going with it. Bet it works great with Eastman 5222 +X.

Here are some Beutler images and the development times. The two developers which I am using quite a bit until my XTOL arrives are Beutler and PQ Universal. Both are interesting developers.

"Testing Fill Flash"
Agfa 100, Beutler in 1+1+8 at 4mins@30C (roughly 8mins@20C)
M4-P / 35f2

"Wear Spectacles Day"
Fomapan ei400 Beutler 7.5min@30c (roughly 15mins at 20C) in 1+1+8. Rolleiflex 2.8e

 

[Tom A]

Mixed up some Beutler, I need to get going with it. Bet it works great with Eastman 5222 +X.

I have run 5222 in Beutler 1:8 for 10.5 and 11.5 min. Grain is distinct, but no worse than with TriX. Good accutance and the mid-tones hold up very well. Agitation sensitive though - 3 inversions slowly every 60 sec. I have tried it for 12 minutes with agitation every 2 min. for contrasty light (XX rated around 320 iso). There is some shots on our Flickr with Beutler too.