Biogon copy????

[gb hill]

Hello, I was looking at jupiter 12 lenses for my FED2 that I'm still waiting on, and mabe use on my bessa l once in a while. So here is my question? What is the difference in one that is a Biogon copy and not a Biogon copy? Is this a screw mount? And how about the flange at the rear of the lens. Looks pretty big and might net work on a bessa. And quality? How is this lens compared to other j-12 lenses. Big thanks in advance!!!🙂

 

[David Murphy]

I've used the J12 on the Kiev and I thought it was pretty darn good -- not sure how it compares to the real Biogon.

 

[xayraa33]

the J -12 is a pre war Zeiss Biogon copy that is coated.
It should fit your Fed 2 if you bought the LTM version, but it is not
recommeded for CV cameras, as the rear part of the lens might interfere
with the shutter cover.
the J-12 produces excellent results IMHO.

 

[oscroft]

I have a J-12 and the results from it are excellent (on FEDs and Zorkis), but I believe that the quality is variable (and I was lucky to get a good one). I'd never use it on my Bessa-L though, because they hit the light baffles (and possibly the outer shutter curtain).

 

[OldNick]

I use a 1987 Jupiter 12 on my Leica IIIf and get excellent results. I have been told that it is a Biogon clone. I've read that there is interference when attempting to mount them on some Bessa models.

Jim N.

 

[physiognomy]

...What is the difference in one that is a Biogon copy and not a Biogon copy?

I thought they were all copies of the CZ 35/2.8 Biogon... From what I have read there are some slightly different variations in J-12's made throughout their production. Someone else with more knowledge will have to clarify this though.

Is this a screw mount?

J-12's were made in both leica screw mount (39mm) and Contax/Kiev mount. Make sure you get a ltm lens for your FED 2.

And how about the flange at the rear of the lens. Looks pretty big and might net work on a bessa.

I've heard that most do not mount without at least hitting the light baffles in front of the Bessa's shutter... Some might mount ok, but the huge rear element would probably block the light meter. Best not to bother with the J-12 on your Bessa & get a CV 35/2.5 as it is a great little lens!

And quality? How is this lens compared to other j-12 lenses. Big thanks in advance!!!🙂

I have 3 J-12's & love them! My 2 ltm and 1 contax/keiv mount lenses are sharp & are equal to each other in quality... They are all the latter black type, so I have no experience with the earlier chrome versions.

Here are links to 2 shots in my gallery...

Cold winter morning

Frozen lake

Peter

 

[oscroft]

Here's a J-12 shot in my gallery.

 

[gb hill]

Thanks again guys, especially to Alan & Peter. Alan your B&W in your gallery was nice , good tonal range,I like that. Peter I loved the deep blue skys in both photos. esp. the frozen lake. I bet the lake is really nice now with the 2 feet of snow you got yesterday in Denver.😀 HAVE FUN!!! BTW I was pretty certain that the J-12 wouldn't work on the Bessa L, I'm going to stick with cv lenses for that camera. Alan thanks for posting that photo taken with the L with the 15/4, very tempting to get one myself. Well thanks again for the info, lots to learn, but having fun doing it.

 

[rxmd]

Henry Scherer writes that it's a Biotar, not a Biogon copy; however, I think he's wrong here (was there ever a 35/f2.8 Biotar at all?)

One thing that one should note is that the lens is quite susceptible to flare if you have bright lights within the frame:

Philipp

 

[darkkavenger]

Earlier versions of Jupiter-12 lens in Contax mount (produced at KMZ Krasnogorsk and Arsenal Kiev) have similarities with the Carl Zeiss Jena 35/2.8 Biogon, however in time the design was simplified (rear element). The models produced later at LZOS Lytkarino (Triangle and circle with letter C in the center of the triangle/circle intersection) have the same rear element that is found on the LTM version.

By the way I have two earlier Jupiter-12 in Contax mount that need a CLA. If anyone's good at this, tell me your price 😉

Cheers,
Max

 

[darkkavenger]

rxmd, there was a 35/2.8 Biometar lens (Carl Zeiss Jena) and a 35/4.5 Orthometar lens. I missed once a Biometar lens @60 USD on evilBuy because my computer was lagging when I did imput my final bid 🙁

 

[rxmd]

Hi Max,

that could well be, judging from the look of the Biometar: http://noncoat.hp.infoseek.co.jp/port/cxlens/biometar_35.html

However, maybe "Biometar" is just the East German name for the Biogon, since Carl Zeiss Jena didn't own the trademark, and it's actually more or less the same lens.

Philipp

 

[darkkavenger]

Carl Zeiss Jena used the name Biometar later for medium format lenses of "normal focals" : 80mm and 120mm, therefore, besides the 35/2.8 Biometar in Contax mount, there's only a 80/2.8 CZJ Biometar, and a 120/2.8 CZJ Biometar.

This of course doesn't allows me to state that CZJ did not use Biometar because CZO was using the Biogon name. It's known that CZJ produced Biogon lenses for CZO after the war, however, why was there a Biometar lens ? It seems that far less Biometars were produced than Biogons.

Maybe the solution lies in the optical formula of the Biometar vs the Biogon. But I'm just a mere amateur who likes history, and maybe someone at Zeiss could give us an answer, if they were frequenting this forum.

Cheers
Max

 

[rxmd]

Carl Zeiss Jena used the name Biometar later for medium format lenses of "normal focals" : 80mm and 120mm, therefore, besides the 35/2.8 Biometar in Contax mount, there's only a 80/2.8 CZJ Biometar, and a 120/2.8 CZJ Biometar.

The name got resurrected recently: in http://www.photoscala.de/node/2155, Francke & Heidecke announced Biometar 2,8/80, Tele-Biometar 4,0/150, Tele-Biometar 2,8/150 and Vario-Biometar 4,6/60-140 lenses for their Rollei 6000 system (along with a S-Flektogon 2,8/35 and a Flektogon 2,8/50). I guess they bought the names from Carl Zeiss or whoever got the spoils of VEB Pentacon. At least the old Biometar 120/f2.8 is a fantastic lens in medium format and the one in my Kiev lineup that I'd still like to have (I've got a very clean MC Flektogon 50/f4 and a user Sonnar 180/f2.8).

Incidentally, judging from http://www.pacificrimcamera.com/pp/zeiss/contax/35bm.htm, the Jupiter-12 looks like it's not a Biometar copy, and the Biometar and Biogon look quite different.

Philipp

 

[darkkavenger]

Thank you for the info about Rollei lenses 😀 I wonder if they mount a P6 ? This is completely OT, but I was never able to find any Schneider lenses for the P6 / Exakta 66.

As I said above, I own two J-12 who look VERY MUCH like a Biogon, especially my 1957 KMZ one (check the light blue coating, identical to my 1936 50/2 sonnar coating). You can see them here : http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21371 (took me a while to find the post!)

 

[darkkavenger]

I forgot to mention that the 1957 KMZ model was sold to me in a brown leather purse containing a "biogon handling instructions" leaflet printed by Zeiss Ikon Dresden .. weird.

 

[dexdog]

The guy who runs the Pacific Rim Camera website has a page on the CZJ Biometar, and it states

"In 1950 Carl Zeiss Jena replaced the 35/2.8 Biogon with the Biometar. A slightly simpler design, and a bit more compact, it was not sold in great numbers and is relatively uncommon today."

There is a picture attached to the web page that shows the biometar lens. It does not resemble the 35 Biogon, because the Biometar does not have the large protruding rear element of the Biogon.

I would have posted a link to the web page, but it didn't work when I tried attaching to this message.

The Biometar looks to be abou the same size as the CJZ Orthometar (really tiny).

 

[darkkavenger]

*nods at dexdog* the rear element is tiny, I now remember the images I had seen posted by the woman who was selling this Biometar 35/2.8 as a part of an estate 🙂

 

[oscroft]

Alan your B&W in your gallery was nice , good tonal range,I like that

Thanks. I reckon that my Russian lenses and Delta 400 developed in Rodinal make a nice combination for b&w tonal range (I've tried a couple of other films, but I really like the Delta)