Black M3 Holy S***!

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This is not ethical or honest. Knowing the rarity of the items in advance and in all conscience, I would have been honest enough to alert the seller to research the value more - even if I lost out. He's lost a chunk of his inheritance. In my books it's called taking unfair advantage. Sure he could have sold to someone else who would say nothing but he didn't ... he sold to you.
I'm sure my opinion will take a lots of knocks ... but it's what I would have honestly done. As for now that the purchase has been made (and being the owner) I would still go back with my info. and ask what in all fainess should be done - come to a fair compromise. Am I the only one who thinks this way? Suppose the shoe was on the other foot!
 
It is not the buyer's responsibility to educate the seller. Caveat emptor works in reverse as well.

This is getting old. Let's talk about black M3s and the pictures they take, not ethical or moral dilemmas of which this is definitely NOT.
 
I agree with the last 2 posters. If I make a price, and receive it, why should I have any recourse? If I fail to take the initiative to find out true value, it's entirely my fault. From the description of the seller's home and possessions, he was fully capable of researching the camera, just not so inclined.

The information on market values does change things. Just keep it safe from predators!! You'll find it's a nice box that takes pictures with the excellent glass. Sort of like my chrome M3.....

Harry
 
[devils_advocate] I'm not a collector, and I just don't "get" the appeal of vintage, black-paint Leicas. The finish looks cheap and shoddy compared to the beautiful chrome bodies. Heck, it even looks worse than black chrome. The Shintaro and Luton repaints are MUCH better quality, as are the modern black-paint bodies.

I can't help but think the fascination with "original black paint" is some sort of group hysteria brought about by Camera Quest website hype and the market value of this kit rather than any real asthetic merit. Seriously, show any 10 non-Leica users a chrome M3 and a black paint M3 and ask them which is a better looking camera.

And I think, from a karma point of view, that since the seller offered you the camera on the condition that you put it to use, that is what you must do. No sale for profit unless your health insurance leaves you hanging.
[/devils_advocate]
 
thirteen said:
This is not ethical or honest. Knowing the rarity of the items in advance and in all conscience, I would have been honest enough to alert the seller to research the value more - even if I lost out. He's lost a chunk of his inheritance. In my books it's called taking unfair advantage. Sure he could have sold to someone else who would say nothing but he didn't ... he sold to you.
I'm sure my opinion will take a lots of knocks ... but it's what I would have honestly done. As for now that the purchase has been made (and being the owner) I would still go back with my info. and ask what in all fainess should be done - come to a fair compromise. Am I the only one who thinks this way? Suppose the shoe was on the other foot!
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That is absurd thinkin, and the preaching of what is "honest"? Ridiculous...
If you were house shopping and found a house you liked that you thought was cheaper than what it was worth, would you offer to pay more to the seller? Common..

I threw out a vintage poster in a pretty frame from my previous apt, which was in a nice neighborhood in Chicago. Not 10 minutes after I put the frame out by my trash, it was gone. Being intrigued now as to the value of what I threw out, I looked up online and indeed, the poster in that size with the pretty frame fetches upwards of $500.. Am I mad at the person who took the poster without informing me about its value? No! Am I pissed at myself for not researching before tossing it out? Yeah, in a comical kind of way..

mar-ags075.jpg


kevin m said:
I can't help but think the fascination with "original black paint" is some sort of group hysteria brought about by Camera Quest website hype and the market value of this kit rather than any real asthetic merit.
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I seriously doubt the camera quest website has that much impact on the Leica used market.
 
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thirteen said:
Suppose the shoe was on the other foot!
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Several years ago it was, I sold the bullet-mobile. I had an old Volvo 242 that had a lot of spot rust I took care of but never repainted white (the color of the car). It stopped running one day and being flush with cash at the time I put the car in the back driveway and purchased something newer. She was 15 years old at the time and I stupidly did not want to put any more money into it. About two years later the guy who was plowing my driveway asked about the car. I told him the history and said if he could start it and give me $100, it was his. He gave me five $20s and went out. He jump the car with his plow and it started right up. He drove away a happy plow guy, my wife was happy to get it out of the back yard and I figured I could get perhaps another $900, but life goes on.

Perhaps the way to look at it as good Karma for Bob as he has a wonderful nest egg for his new sons college or if he looses his job (God forbid). It's a good thing all around. The well off seller has a DSLR, Bob has a great system and now WE get to see some more pictures!

B2 (;->
 
kevin m said:
I'm not a collector, and I just don't "get" the appeal of vintage, black-paint Leicas. The finish looks cheap and shoddy compared to the beautiful chrome bodies.
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That's why I'd have no problem walking around with a well-worn black M3 around my neck. Who would want to steal what appears to be a battered old timey camera?

As to the concept of unfair advantage, who is to say what is fair or unfair? If one doesn't educate oneself, therein is the fault; it cannot be the fault of the one who knows the true market value.

For all those here that preach ethics and honesty, give me a break. I seriously doubt anyone would fail to pass up a true black M3 at a flea market for example. Most would no doubt even try to bargain down the price tag...
 
For all those here that preach ethics and honesty, give me a break.
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Rationalization is a powerful thing, isn't it? Here we have a man who bought a pretty thing he didn't really need for $2k knowing it was worth $15k from a private seller, not a dealer, and he's come here looking for reassurance that the rest of us would have acted the same, and most have obliged him.

That he did nothing illegal, or even outside common business practice, doesn't make it right.

Let's say he made the same deal from someone here on the board...what then? :confused:
 
This post should have been started by:

" Once upon a time, there was a beautiful, beautiful Leica...."

Congrats! the dream of lots of us around here that comes true...
 
That M3 would have been mine if I saw it first.
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I'll repeat my question: Suppose he made the same deal from someone here on the board. Would we all be gloating and whooping over this if he had made the same deal with someone we know here? :confused:
 
kevin m said:
I'll repeat my question: Suppose he made the same deal from someone here on the board. You, say? Would we all be gloating and whooping over this if he had done the same to someone we know here? :confused:
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Oh, I misread your first statement. I thought you were saying that there were some here who would NOT have bought the camera.

I can't honestly know if I'd talk about it on the board, though, as I didn't buy it; but odds are I wouldn't.
 
Enjoy your great find for now...make any big decisions about it later...(at least wait for your heart rate to get back to normal)
 
kevin m said:
I'll repeat my question: Suppose he made the same deal from someone here on the board. Would we all be gloating and whooping over this if he had made the same deal with someone we know here? :confused:
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What difference would that make? It would still be a transfer of funds and goods between two willing individuals.

Let's forget the hypothetical situations.. I know some people here love to chat about hypotheticals all day..
 
I just now recieved a package (UPS) from an ebay auction win...I paid $0.99 plus shipping $9.99 for 4 Mamiya 645 film holders (as is - parts) Looking at what I got I can tell that I can get three of them to work...do I now re-evaluate the auction and send the seller a check for the difference...NO!!!
(Before anyone cries that it's after the fact that I discovered this...before the auction win I figured that I could get at least two of them to work...heck at that price one would have been enough...)

It appears that the seller of this M3 knew that his price was lower than what he could ask but decided to sell it for the listed price...I believe that both parties involved here are happy with the end results...
 
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memphis said:
I don't think he has any need for reassurance... any of us would have jumped on this given the described situation --- I just think he's giddier than a school girl with the find...
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you're right about the giddiness.

i don't think i am looking for any reassurance about any moral dilemna. as i said before, i felt a little twinge of weirdness when i was leaving the guy's house, but i did nothing wrong. he set the price and i gave him my hard earned money.

is it wrong to buy a subaru outback in july when they are on sale for $20k even though they were 'worth' $24k a week before? the owner of the prpoerty decided what the item was worth to them and put it out there for that price. he didn't want to carry around a relic, he wants a digital nikon to take to the soccer field and take pictures of his kids.

and this wasn't a flea market or garage sale find. i didn't buy a $15k camera for $25, i bought a $15k for $2k. no matter which way you cut it, two thousand dollars is always going to be two thousand dollars. i made a leap of faith and trusted the seller enough to believe that it wasn't a fake or stolen. i also took my chances in going to someone's house knowing well that i could have been beaten half to death or worse for my money. it's happened before on craigslist.

if the seller didn't do his research, that is nothing for me to feel rotten about. i give stuff all the time to goodwill knowing full well that i can list it on ebay and get some money for it. i also own a small store that makes very little profit and we still give money and our service to a cancer facility.

there is no moral issue here.
 
kevin m said:
I'll repeat my question: Suppose he made the same deal from someone here on the board. Would we all be gloating and whooping over this if he had made the same deal with someone we know here? :confused:
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i don't think there is any gloating going on here. i haven't seen anyone calling the seller stupid or a sucker. i don't feel like he's a chump. he seemed like an educated person that had done very well for himself. the nicer parts of alameda are not inexpensive and he lived in a much nicer than usual house for his neighborhood.
 
ywenz said:
bob: don't mind the haters.. some people are just real jealous.
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thanks for the support, but some people just gotta be negative. i've been collecting cameras for half of my life and this is truly the dream. my heart still races when i think about it...
 
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