squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
I've been debating getting a printer for a year. At the moment I'm looking at the Epson 1400. I figure I'd be printing B&W maybe 80% of the time, but want to hang onto the option of printing in color. Reading around the internet, it seems that this printer does really well with the black-only printing method, and you can swap out the Epson black cartrige for a high-end one such as MIS Eboni K, and still use it with the Epson color cartridges. This seems ideal for me, but do I have my details right here? Would I be restricted to either matte or glossy? Can I really use the Eboni with the stock color inks?
If you use this printer for both color and black only, please share your workflow/inks/paper combinations. Now that my back room FINALLY has the heat fixed and won't be 30 degrees during the night in the winter, I am feeling ready to start printing!
(btw, this is kind of a spinoff from the cheap epson B&W thread...I wanted to start something more specific over here...)
If you use this printer for both color and black only, please share your workflow/inks/paper combinations. Now that my back room FINALLY has the heat fixed and won't be 30 degrees during the night in the winter, I am feeling ready to start printing!
(btw, this is kind of a spinoff from the cheap epson B&W thread...I wanted to start something more specific over here...)
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froyd
Veteran
As I had mentioned to you in the earlier "Cheap Epson" thread, I print black-only (BO) on a 2200, but my experience will be relevant to the 1400.
You don't necessarily have to stick with MIS Eboni black for the best BO results. While that ink works well with Epson Enhanced Matte or Velvet and other matte papers, I had equally great results using photo K on Museo Silver Rag. I have not tried any other, cheaper papers with the look of the traditional air-dried glossy fiber papers, but I plan to, since Silver rag costs a fortune.
Since most of my other prints are color family snapshots, leaving the photo K in saves me wasted ink in the clean cycle that happens whenever the blacks are swapped.
You don't necessarily have to stick with MIS Eboni black for the best BO results. While that ink works well with Epson Enhanced Matte or Velvet and other matte papers, I had equally great results using photo K on Museo Silver Rag. I have not tried any other, cheaper papers with the look of the traditional air-dried glossy fiber papers, but I plan to, since Silver rag costs a fortune.
Since most of my other prints are color family snapshots, leaving the photo K in saves me wasted ink in the clean cycle that happens whenever the blacks are swapped.
dfoo
Well-known
I use the UT14 inkset with the 1400 with excellent results. What I like is that I can print both matte and glossy without changing out the carts.
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
dfoo, do you know if the 1400 driver offers a "black only" option, as older Epson printers do? Or (back to froyd here) would I have to use QuadTone RIP? Do you use it, froyd?
Getting the photo K and leaving it in seems like the best option for me. I would like to print matte and glossy...I probably won't be investing in expensive rag papers.
Getting the photo K and leaving it in seems like the best option for me. I would like to print matte and glossy...I probably won't be investing in expensive rag papers.
froyd
Veteran
I'm not sure what the 1400's capabilities are in terms of BO. Clayton Jones site and Epson's should give you the answer. I've tried QuadTone to try getting BW prints using all the color cartridges, but I never good results that matched the BO technique in both simplicity and look. This is admittedly due to operator ignorance, but be as it may I never went back to QuadTone.
PS_ the QT support community is very active and very helpful if you need pointers, like I did.
PS_ the QT support community is very active and very helpful if you need pointers, like I did.
T
Todd.Hanz
Guest
not sure if this helps but I print BO with a 2200. Using the Epson software the inks (both matte and glossy) have a bronze color, almost sepia to them. The final print exhibits a sepia tone when printed on matte or semi-gloss paper. I managed a good print using the cool/warm setting on the quadtone RIP. Side by side the Quadtone looks more like BW when compared to the BO straight from the Epson software.
This may only happen on the pigment inkset, not sure though.
Good Luck,
Todd
This may only happen on the pigment inkset, not sure though.
Good Luck,
Todd
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squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
Unfortunately Jones makes no mention of the 1400, and I can't find this information on Epson's site either. Presumably I could do it with QuadTone RIp but I must admit I don't fully understand how all of this works and suspect I'll end up going through a lot of ink and paper before I figure it out. Which is one reason I still haven't bought a printer...
dfoo
Well-known
Another reason to use the UT14 inkset 
You can buy 4oz of the inkset for something like $100, which will last quite some time!
I get very good prints, and haven't wasted all that much paper. I've been using the Epson Premium Matte (cut into 4 pieces for proofing), and the Kirkland Glossy, which is both cheap and pretty nice looking!
I'll take a look at the printer settings later to see whether BO is possible.
You can buy 4oz of the inkset for something like $100, which will last quite some time!I get very good prints, and haven't wasted all that much paper. I've been using the Epson Premium Matte (cut into 4 pieces for proofing), and the Kirkland Glossy, which is both cheap and pretty nice looking!
I'll take a look at the printer settings later to see whether BO is possible.
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
Another reason to use the UT14 inkset
I get very good prints, and haven't wasted all that much paper. I've been using the Epson Premium Matte (cut into 4 pieces for proofing), and the Kirkland Glossy, which is both cheap and pretty nice looking!
I'll take a look at the printer settings later to see whether BO is possible.
Cool, thanks!
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
Any updates on this, y'all? I'm still considering this printer. If I can do black only with it, I will probably go for it. It's kind of weird, all new information about black-only printing on the internet seems to have stopped in like late 2007. My main concern is not having to swap out the inks and clean the heads just to print B&W, and then have to switch it all back the next day because my mom wants prints of my kids.
Bob Michaels
nobody special
Mabelsound: Spend $600 and get an Epson 2400 or 2880. Then you can do great b&w right out of the box using the ABW mode and then print a color photo of your kids with nothing but a change in Photoshop settings.
I printed with the various MIS inksets for years. I printed BO for quite a while. I have a "thanks for the contributions" somewhere in Clayton Jones website. Then I got a 2400 several years ago. I was disappointed that all my years of learning the craft had been just built into the 2400 with automatic settings. No hassles, no clogs, but great prints done easy.
I printed with the various MIS inksets for years. I printed BO for quite a while. I have a "thanks for the contributions" somewhere in Clayton Jones website. Then I got a 2400 several years ago. I was disappointed that all my years of learning the craft had been just built into the 2400 with automatic settings. No hassles, no clogs, but great prints done easy.
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
Hey Bob, thanks a lot! I'm afraid I don't have the money or the space for one of those printers just now...I'm fixated on the 1400 because it's inexpensive and small, and has the same 1.5pl dots as the larger models.
Does the 1400 have an ABW mode?
Does the 1400 have an ABW mode?
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
OK, so I emailed Paul Roark about this and he was kind enough to reply in detail. He says that the 1400 prints very smoothly with the black cartridge only, but that this option is not available through the stock driver, and that you have to use Quadtone RIP. FIne by me. He also says Eboni doesn't play well with the stock Claria inks...so I will probably try some BO for a couple months, print my upcoming color show, then decide if I want to go all-B&W or not. If a current eBay auction works out, I'll order the printer soon.
Bob Michaels
nobody special
Mabelsound: A few observations
Paul Roark is a first class guy who speaks the truth. He is the unpaid b&w ink developer for MIS. He is an excellent photographer and master printer. He is as independent from MIS as possible (he does this for free) and has no problem either recommending or criticizing MIS products. A lot of googling will show what Paul accomplished at an FTC enforcement attorney before he retired.
MIS is a first class outfit as well. They are a small company in a changing market but ethical as the day is long and has good customer support. I dealt with the owner, Bob Zeiss, back some 35 years ago when he was head of the TRW industrial automation lab and bought our minicomputers. Back then there was a lot of voodoo and black magic in just getting them to work and he understood. I have probably spent over $2,000 with MIS buying inks and cartridges.
If you can get a good Epson 1400 for $150; you then need: QTR ($50 unless you just steal it), MIS UT-14 inkset ($100) and reusable MIS carts, chip resetter, and filling syringes ($100). Add it up and you have spent $400 and need paper and time to make all these different elements work together.
Or, you could spend $50 or $100 more for a solution that works right out of the box.
Over the years I have been the mix and match, custom solution to the problem. I could make great prints with a 1280 when few could. I have about $400 in MIS custom inks and cartridges for my 2400 sitting on the shelf. Yet I am now using the standard Epson print driver and inks. But I am one of those who will prefer a simple solution over a complex one given the same results.
Paul Roark is a first class guy who speaks the truth. He is the unpaid b&w ink developer for MIS. He is an excellent photographer and master printer. He is as independent from MIS as possible (he does this for free) and has no problem either recommending or criticizing MIS products. A lot of googling will show what Paul accomplished at an FTC enforcement attorney before he retired.
MIS is a first class outfit as well. They are a small company in a changing market but ethical as the day is long and has good customer support. I dealt with the owner, Bob Zeiss, back some 35 years ago when he was head of the TRW industrial automation lab and bought our minicomputers. Back then there was a lot of voodoo and black magic in just getting them to work and he understood. I have probably spent over $2,000 with MIS buying inks and cartridges.
If you can get a good Epson 1400 for $150; you then need: QTR ($50 unless you just steal it), MIS UT-14 inkset ($100) and reusable MIS carts, chip resetter, and filling syringes ($100). Add it up and you have spent $400 and need paper and time to make all these different elements work together.
Or, you could spend $50 or $100 more for a solution that works right out of the box.
Over the years I have been the mix and match, custom solution to the problem. I could make great prints with a 1280 when few could. I have about $400 in MIS custom inks and cartridges for my 2400 sitting on the shelf. Yet I am now using the standard Epson print driver and inks. But I am one of those who will prefer a simple solution over a complex one given the same results.
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
So Bob, the 2400 uses entirely different, and more satisfactory, stock inks from the 1400?
Bob Michaels
nobody special
Yes, the 2400 / 2880 has black, light black and light light black (3 dilutions) and the ABW (Advanced Black White) mode is basically a simple built in RIP. It is not as sophisticated or complex as QTR, but it works.
You can read the tech details on the Epson website.
Now, I must add that I have seen really good b&w prints made from just about everything. More importantly, they are almost all good enough. "Good enough" is a hard concept to swallow, especially for a group that equates the merit of a photo by the minute differences in the lens rather than the subject matter of the photo. But it still boils down to 99.9% of what you photograph, .05% in what lens you use and .05% in the printer you use. I have seen spectacular photo prints made by an visionary photographer with 12 year old printer technology and I have seen technically perfect prints that were boring as hell.
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
Fair enough. I honestly don't want anything to be complex--I want it to just work. I always want it to just work. But I know how fussy I am, too. I've been ordering prints from Mpix and they are never, never even close to having black enough Dmax. It could be that I'd even be happy with the 1400 and stock inks, but I could see myself getting frustrated within days, too.
Ultimately, I have $300 and want to make some prints. (Indeed, I have to, for an upcoming color show.) So the 1400 is what I'm looking at. At the moment I am leaning toward getting it and just using and enjoying what it comes with. And I'm sure it would be better than fine. And when the inks run out, I will either keep on with Epson inks or buy some MIS ones, depending on how I feel about what I've been able to do with it.
But I dunno, Bob, I would like a new printer, under warranty, and the 2400 is just not in my price range right now. It's going to be a really tight year. I'll give it some thought.
Thanks for all your help!
Ultimately, I have $300 and want to make some prints. (Indeed, I have to, for an upcoming color show.) So the 1400 is what I'm looking at. At the moment I am leaning toward getting it and just using and enjoying what it comes with. And I'm sure it would be better than fine. And when the inks run out, I will either keep on with Epson inks or buy some MIS ones, depending on how I feel about what I've been able to do with it.
But I dunno, Bob, I would like a new printer, under warranty, and the 2400 is just not in my price range right now. It's going to be a really tight year. I'll give it some thought.
Thanks for all your help!
Bob Michaels
nobody special
Mabelsound: Then buy what you think you can comfortably afford, and enjoy it. As I said, you can make really good prints with all of them.
You will see two benefits. You be happier with your prints done yourself because they will be what you want them to look like. Plus, you will have a greater sense of accomplishment when you realize that you were responsible for everything from beginning to the final output.
You will see two benefits. You be happier with your prints done yourself because they will be what you want them to look like. Plus, you will have a greater sense of accomplishment when you realize that you were responsible for everything from beginning to the final output.
dfoo
Well-known
I use UT14 and the 1400 without QTR. Works great! I profiled my papers as outlined by Paul on his website. For Kirkland Glossy I use the profiles provided on his site. The prints look very very close to my monitor. It is very simple. Load the shot up in Lightroom. When it looks good, go to the print module, select the right ICC, set the printer drivers up correctly, and viola!
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
cool, guys, thanks again!