Kalli
Hobographer
Since getting a Leica M-body and a wide-angle M-mount lens wouldn't be fiscally *ahem* responsible of me right now I'm pondering getting a Jupter-12 along with some accessory viewfinder for my Zorki-4.
I recall reading about the black ones being better than the chrome ones (exact opposite of what I read about the J-8 before buying my Zork) so I guess I should aim for black?
As an aside, I mostly seem to hear positive things about this lens except for flaring. I've neither printed nor mastered 135 film scanning to an extent that would allow me to comment on the absolute sharpness of my J-8 but I generally like the look of the photos from it, although flare can sometimes bug me.
I'm guessing that the J-12 shouldn't disappoint me in that case except for the flaring issue?
And to pile on a bit more (it is my first post, best make it verbose and off-putting – sorry!) I'm a bit worried about sample variation. I'm mostly scanning the European eBay sites for these items, eBay.de primarily, but DVDTechnik seems to offer prices reasonable enough to put up with shipping and duties. Is shopping with them, regarding ultimate quality of the item, any less of a gamble than eBay sellers? I'd consider trying Fedka if that would mean I could reasonably expect less dodgy samples.
As for viewfinders, I guess I'm not overly picky. It's not going to be much worse than the one on the Zorki-4, right
I just want a usable one on the cheap. The cheap options seem to consist of the Wata viewfinder (which I find nothing about), the Soviet fixed 35mm viewfinders (which appear to be available in several versions, black plastic, partly metallic, various makers) and the Soviet turret style finder.
Does the turret style finder provide as big and bright a view as the fixed one? If it's decently bright it wouldn't be bad to get a 28mm option for later use but if the fixed angle of view finders provide a nicer image I'll go that way. Are there any of them in particular I should avoid? I'm currently looking at a Rostov made sample.
Well, thank you for your patience if you've made it this far
Edit:
Well, what do you know, I post this thing and see it's in fact my fourth post. What a lurker I am
I recall reading about the black ones being better than the chrome ones (exact opposite of what I read about the J-8 before buying my Zork) so I guess I should aim for black?
As an aside, I mostly seem to hear positive things about this lens except for flaring. I've neither printed nor mastered 135 film scanning to an extent that would allow me to comment on the absolute sharpness of my J-8 but I generally like the look of the photos from it, although flare can sometimes bug me.
I'm guessing that the J-12 shouldn't disappoint me in that case except for the flaring issue?
And to pile on a bit more (it is my first post, best make it verbose and off-putting – sorry!) I'm a bit worried about sample variation. I'm mostly scanning the European eBay sites for these items, eBay.de primarily, but DVDTechnik seems to offer prices reasonable enough to put up with shipping and duties. Is shopping with them, regarding ultimate quality of the item, any less of a gamble than eBay sellers? I'd consider trying Fedka if that would mean I could reasonably expect less dodgy samples.
As for viewfinders, I guess I'm not overly picky. It's not going to be much worse than the one on the Zorki-4, right
I just want a usable one on the cheap. The cheap options seem to consist of the Wata viewfinder (which I find nothing about), the Soviet fixed 35mm viewfinders (which appear to be available in several versions, black plastic, partly metallic, various makers) and the Soviet turret style finder.Does the turret style finder provide as big and bright a view as the fixed one? If it's decently bright it wouldn't be bad to get a 28mm option for later use but if the fixed angle of view finders provide a nicer image I'll go that way. Are there any of them in particular I should avoid? I'm currently looking at a Rostov made sample.
Well, thank you for your patience if you've made it this far
Edit:
Well, what do you know, I post this thing and see it's in fact my fourth post. What a lurker I am
Pickett Wilson
Veteran
Never had a problem with a J-12. Currently have a "chrome" one that works great on the M's and LTMs. They are actually an aluminum alloy or something and can look pretty ratty over time, so the black may be prettier, but of the several I've owned, I haven't seen any difference in performance. It's a surprisingly good lens, actually.
MartinP
Veteran
I have a silvery J-12 too, it performs very adequately on an M3. The lens design is pretty old though, so good quality new lenses should perform better. If anyone would like to loan me a 35mm Summarit for testing (say for twenty years or so?) then I can give a more informed opinion.
For viewfinder I use the FSU turret version and that works ok. There might even be more variation with the finders than with the lens, as the finders are easier to get in to, for 'cleaning'/wrecking purposes.....
For viewfinder I use the FSU turret version and that works ok. There might even be more variation with the finders than with the lens, as the finders are easier to get in to, for 'cleaning'/wrecking purposes.....
rustysheepdog
Member
Jupiter 35/2.8
Jupiter 35/2.8
I've had three of these over the years, one chrome and two black. One of the black ones was dreadful and gave poorer definition on one side of the frame than the other, but the other two were actually very good. And that's the big problem with Russian/Soviet lenses, they often do vary in quality. Most of them were made in the days when factory quality control seems to have been absent, so that the inherently high capability of the lens is frequently compromised.
There is really no way you can depend on getting a good one, full stop. But the bad ones seem to be in a minority so the probability is that what you buy will be satisfactory. It might even be first class! Don't pay too much - on eBay UK they still go for about £30, largely because you can't use them on the Voigtlander Bessa family: the back of the lens hits the meter cell housing in the camera throat.
Jupiter 35/2.8
I've had three of these over the years, one chrome and two black. One of the black ones was dreadful and gave poorer definition on one side of the frame than the other, but the other two were actually very good. And that's the big problem with Russian/Soviet lenses, they often do vary in quality. Most of them were made in the days when factory quality control seems to have been absent, so that the inherently high capability of the lens is frequently compromised.
There is really no way you can depend on getting a good one, full stop. But the bad ones seem to be in a minority so the probability is that what you buy will be satisfactory. It might even be first class! Don't pay too much - on eBay UK they still go for about £30, largely because you can't use them on the Voigtlander Bessa family: the back of the lens hits the meter cell housing in the camera throat.
Kalli
Hobographer
Thanks all for the helpful replies.
£30 on eBay UK? I didn't find any when I checked earlier but for that price I'll certainly take another look.
The "chrome" ones look prettier to me but my chrome J-8 is a bugger for reading the DoF scale off in bright sunshine or bright streetlights at night. For lenses I'll just try to get most for my money, silver or black, but I'm swaying towards a soviet 35mm viewfinder if for nothing but the look.
The turret style things might be good for street photography, though, as it looks so damn odd. That usually seems to disarm people
£30 on eBay UK? I didn't find any when I checked earlier but for that price I'll certainly take another look.
The "chrome" ones look prettier to me but my chrome J-8 is a bugger for reading the DoF scale off in bright sunshine or bright streetlights at night. For lenses I'll just try to get most for my money, silver or black, but I'm swaying towards a soviet 35mm viewfinder if for nothing but the look.
The turret style things might be good for street photography, though, as it looks so damn odd. That usually seems to disarm people
wolves3012
Veteran
I have a silver one in Kiev-mount and a black LTM-mount and I've not noticed a quality difference. Despite the reputation I don't find it prone to flare either, although I tend to be aware of the possibility, so maybe I avoid the risk.
You can get them on Ebay for £30 or so, with a bit of patience, as has been said. They don't have a mis-focussing reputation but make sure the rear element is clean (often damaged due to the size of it).
The turret finder is quite handy and gives a usefully bright image with cross-hairs and a degree of peripheral vision that's very useful - you can see what's just outside the frame. Brightline and single-length finders tend to be smaller but the turret is a better all-rounder.
You can get them on Ebay for £30 or so, with a bit of patience, as has been said. They don't have a mis-focussing reputation but make sure the rear element is clean (often damaged due to the size of it).
The turret finder is quite handy and gives a usefully bright image with cross-hairs and a degree of peripheral vision that's very useful - you can see what's just outside the frame. Brightline and single-length finders tend to be smaller but the turret is a better all-rounder.
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Pickett Wilson
Veteran
I wear glasses, and the turret finder is useless for me with glasses, but the standard plastic single focal length finder works fine, doesn't scratch my glasses and I can see the full frame.
JohnTF
Veteran
I think Igor at www.igorcamera.com said he had a few, - he should be reasonable and he is dependable. I would get the black - if you do not care for it, you can pass it along.
I would just email him and ask if he has one, have no idea what the shipping would be, but he ships world wide.
Other than that, if you have patience, I gave someone a heads up here and they got one on ebay here for about that price, with the camera body.
Are you watching the classifieds on RFF?
And, finally, I would keep an eye out for any of the CV LTM's, several were not horribly expensive new, and you would be getting a modern quality lens.
As to viewfinder, I have several of the FSU multi finders, fairly clear and usable for the wider lenses, but some of them have paint problems-- on one the paint just flaked off with a thumbnail. I have several bright line finders, can easily cost as much as a lens, but are very nice.
If you find the CV 25 in LTM, they came with a finder. Scale focus though, should not be much of a problem. Can often be had at reasonable price.
I sold a Canon 35mm with a bright line finder a year ago, have seen a couple since in a leather case.
All of these could very well end up in a similar price range.
Regards, John
Regards, John
I would just email him and ask if he has one, have no idea what the shipping would be, but he ships world wide.
Other than that, if you have patience, I gave someone a heads up here and they got one on ebay here for about that price, with the camera body.
Are you watching the classifieds on RFF?
And, finally, I would keep an eye out for any of the CV LTM's, several were not horribly expensive new, and you would be getting a modern quality lens.
As to viewfinder, I have several of the FSU multi finders, fairly clear and usable for the wider lenses, but some of them have paint problems-- on one the paint just flaked off with a thumbnail. I have several bright line finders, can easily cost as much as a lens, but are very nice.
If you find the CV 25 in LTM, they came with a finder. Scale focus though, should not be much of a problem. Can often be had at reasonable price.
I sold a Canon 35mm with a bright line finder a year ago, have seen a couple since in a leather case.
All of these could very well end up in a similar price range.
Regards, John
Regards, John
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Kalli
Hobographer
Thanks for all the great advice.
If I'd jump at getting a simple J-12 + 35mm viewfinder right now the price looks to be around or a bit over €100. But, yeah, spending a bit more for a bit nicer stuff isn't entirely out of the question
If I'd jump at getting a simple J-12 + 35mm viewfinder right now the price looks to be around or a bit over €100. But, yeah, spending a bit more for a bit nicer stuff isn't entirely out of the question
JohnTF
Veteran
You do know that as soon as you buy one, the "real" deal will present itself. ;-)
Hate to rely on my memory, but the price of $50 for a black J12 seems to be in mind from Igor.
I have not paid much attention to the used prices of the CV 35 as I bought one years back-- the Classic, has a knob on the focusing ring? but they do seem to pop up at the camera shows and I recall the prices to be reasonable. Might be the most quality for $$?
Sometimes the guy has to pay for his table and the price drops if he has had it for awhile. Some patience and Luck involved, if you get the CV, you can use it on your present rig and wait for a deal on something else down the line?
Regards, John
Hate to rely on my memory, but the price of $50 for a black J12 seems to be in mind from Igor.
I have not paid much attention to the used prices of the CV 35 as I bought one years back-- the Classic, has a knob on the focusing ring? but they do seem to pop up at the camera shows and I recall the prices to be reasonable. Might be the most quality for $$?
Sometimes the guy has to pay for his table and the price drops if he has had it for awhile. Some patience and Luck involved, if you get the CV, you can use it on your present rig and wait for a deal on something else down the line?
Regards, John
payasam
a.k.a. Mukul Dube
You'll be safe if you buy from www.fedka.com. Yuri B. sells good thing and is also helpful.
I have used both fixed and multiple length finders but not the Soviet ones. Even if you plan to use only a J-12 in addition to 50mm (and thus do not need 28, 85 and 135 frames), the turret finder might make sense as its 50mm image should be better than that of the camera's finder -- and you will get parallax correction.
I have used both fixed and multiple length finders but not the Soviet ones. Even if you plan to use only a J-12 in addition to 50mm (and thus do not need 28, 85 and 135 frames), the turret finder might make sense as its 50mm image should be better than that of the camera's finder -- and you will get parallax correction.
Kalli
Hobographer
The Skopar C, I think, is the slow thread mount 35mm Voigtländer I'd fancy and judging by what I've seen well worth keeping in many instances even if I'd get a faster 35mm and an M-mount body.
I've just no idea where to find a camera show and slow 35mm Voigtländers, especially at low prices, seem rarer than mystical beasts on this side of the Atlantic right now.
But, of course when I've decided to get another lens for the Zorki it has decided to go wonky on me. Scanning some negatives yesterday it looked like some frames were meaningfully darker on the right side than the left side. I'll have to find out what's up, whether it needs fixing and how.
Kalli
Hobographer
Ah, now that could make a turret finder entirely worthwhile.
JohnTF
Veteran
Igor told me today he sold his black J12, I think to Japan, but has a chrome yet. I think he said he wanted $50. He does not normally bother listing items that low, but if you are interested you could email hi for a description and price on shipping.
At shows the items run in spurts, one guy had picked up a large box of Bessa stuff, and I missed out thinking too long about some of it, and a lot I had bought new from Skoda Photo in Prague with my Gold discount and duty free status, and deal or no deal if you already have it you are not interested.
Because he had so much invested, he wanted to unload some. Probably the Bessa T in the box for $100 was worth it. ;-)
No one was particularly looking for the 35mm, so he priced it low.
Regards, John
Kalli
Hobographer
Thanks! I'm going to have to see how badly my Zorki is wounded first, though. Typical of it to get wonky when I have higher plans for it.
JohnTF
Veteran
We should all have that engraved on the backs, the higher plans, not the Wonky. ;-)
If I see something at the Sept. 6 show, will try to grab a card and pass the info along.
Stuff pops up when you do not expect it, there was a ton of FSU stuff lost among the other stuff at an auction, they were auctioning off pairs of FSU cameras quickly to get rid of them -- I was unprepared, plus I have a good collection of FSU from my Prague days, but there was gold there, some pre war stuff, and some of the batches went for less than the price of one lens.
Market locally is very soft on FSU gear-- if any market is local any more. ;-)
My Fed 2 with J 12 was set to go when I realized the second curtain was hanging up, may cost more to repair than replace the body, perhaps with another lens attached.
Regards, John