Black paint M4 help

[marpar]

I need some help from the experts here. This has stumped the best Leica minds I know of in Manhattan. After lots of hard work I got enough cash for a black paint M4 and bought one. She runs great, Ive already developed a few rolls and they look great etc etc

Anywho here is what Im wondering, the film counter is black w/ white lettering (rather than sliver w/ black), the surrounding part with the "arrow" is silver with a black arrow. Weird right? Well here is the other thing, the lettering is upside down, as though it were meant to be read with the lens facing towards you, WTF if this about? anyone?

The guys at Nippon said the counter should be a genuine Leica part because the font is correct and the workmanship looks up to par, but theyd never seen anything like it

Many thanks for any help. I cant post pictures because I dont own any digicams
Martin

 

[marpar]

here is a diagram i made in case my words dont make sense

 

[Tom A]

The counter was black on some of the black M3 (the early DS blacks), but the reversed numbering looks weird.
It could be that the camera was used on a copy stand and when mounted with the lens down, the numbers could be easier to read.
There was a rare variation of the black paint M4 (and M4mot)that was made for a Zeiss Opthamology (how the hell do you spell that!) camera and was used wih a "thingie" for taking pictures of the retina.
Weird all right, but as long as it works - keep shooting!

 

[erikhaugsby]

All your details are besides me and any Leica compendium I can reference, so all I can offer is that you've got a very scarce (black paint, no less) M4. Have you tried contacting Stephen Gandy or Van Hasbroeck directly?

 

[marpar]

Weird all right, but as long as it works - keep shooting!

Yeah Tom will do! She gets a roll or more a day and stays wrapped around my wrist while I explore the streets

However (not that I expect such an outcome, but) if I have some collectors item thats worth all sorts of cash Id rather sell it to someone who will stare at it all day behind a case. Sorry but yours truly is broke and Tri-X and D76 aint getting cheaper (neither is art school!). Otherwise I will enjoy my quirky M4 (as if a black paint one wasnt special enough)

Hope I can get an answer before all the black paint comes off haha

Many thanks guys!
Martin


ohh and the serial # is 1266 957 if that means anything

 

[Beemermark]

Just because you have a black M4 with the correct serial number doesn't mean you have an all original black M4. Years ago (about 20) I had an original black M4 which was seriously abused. Very little black paint left and lots of dings and dents. It finally took a blow hard enough to dent the top and break the finder and damage the RF. I sold that camera for a fair amount to a dealer who refurbished it. Leitz would supply a new black top deck with the correct, same serial number upon recieving the original damaged one. The dealer had expert repair people who totally rebuilt the camera, and re-painted the camera with the new top from Leitz. Who knows, maybe it's the one you bought.

 

[borismach]

Envy you to have a black paint M4. It is my dream. However, it is so expensive for one in better condition.
Btw the diagram you shown is not just up-side-down figure. It is also mirrored. Weird enough. But what the hack! Keep shooting until you want to sell it out...to me.
Cheerz
bm

 

[marpar]

sorry i dont sell my leicas haha

here is a glamor shot for all the help you guys have given me, sorry its not really up to snuff, Im terrible with digital cameras, but screw them anyways

here is an actual picture of the counter:

 

[dreamsandart]

Very nice camera. My observations from a 'collector's' point of view...

I've never seen a black counter on an M4 let alone one with reversed view. I would go with Tom's thought that this may have been a custom fit camera set up for lab use on a microscope or such (although from the strap wear it may not have been used on one exclusively if ever, usually cameras on microscopes don't have straps on). A few other unusual points are the black strap lugs, black shutter release cap, and black screws on the accessory shoe. These were chrome on 'normal' BP M4s. The shutter cap and screws may have been replaced at some time during a CLA, the cap is prone to 'teeth marks' sometimes when removing without the proper tool and many times is replaced as standard practice, maybe this one is a newer black chrome?

Anyway, looks like an original top. Can't be sure about the serial number from the photos but looks like its with in the BP range. With out any documentation the idea of the unique counter doesn't have too much value, maybe some collector would find it interesting, but in general BP M4s don't get the blood pumping of a collector the way a BP M3 does.

Nice camera, I love the BP M4 and have one myself. Its the one camera that will always be with me and has a special place in my Leica Heart. I would just use it, have lots of fun with it, and think of it as something special.

 

[marpar]

Sorry my diagram was off guys, my brain is fried after these past few weeks (12 hour days inhaling darkroom fumes for finals haha). Many thanks to dreamsandart and Tom for the info, ive got enough mysteries in my life.

Dreamsinart, the serial # does check out with cameraquest. Also I admit I have seen other BP M4s with black chrome lugs/hot shoe screws/shutter release collars. I believe there is one on ebay from those big guys who have overpriced buy-it-now ads

Happy shootin, yall, Ill make sure this M4 gets plenty of tri-x

Martin

 

[dreamsandart]

If your seeing 'black chrome' parts its a later 'second edition' that was produced [or parts from] an M4 concurrent with the M5. Some of the early BD M4s had painted screw at the shoe, also variations; an all black paint on brass rewind, BP on brass self-timer/preview caps. The' black chrome' is a different process than the black anodized parts used pre-1971 M5.