Black & white Workflow ! What do you use?

[napoleonesq]

I use lightroom for workflow and its preset B&W seems ok, but some photos on this site taken with M8 appear so much better and more film like than what I can get from lightroom...and I have noticed some use Nik's to accomplish this.

How many of you use Nik's silver efex for B&W workflow for film like look...or any other solutions or plug ins for B&W workflow?


Thanks

 

[Al Kaplan]

I use Ilford Multigrade, usually DuPont Varilour filters, and Dektol. I get very film like results.

 

[wjlapier]

I use Ilford Multigrade, usually DuPont Varilour filters, and Dektol. I get very film like results.

Does PSCS2 have a Dektol plugin 😎

 

[russianRF]

The poor man *is* in the M8/8.2 section, Al. 😛

napoleonesq: Alien Skin also makes film/B&W plug ins for Photoshop.

 

[Al Kaplan]

At this point in life I can't see much sense in learning a new workflow and there are people who prefer getting a silver print, even willing to pay more for one. That's a marketing decision, whether or not I agree with it or can tell the difference.

You asked about "workflow" and I answered it. If "film like" is so important why not do it the easy way?

 

[napoleonesq]

As much as I love using film...given time constraint with work, child, and life in general...doesn't leave much time for developing. Maybe i am being lazy a bit too, but I still have films from 3 weeks ago that I just haven't gotten around developing them.

 

[David William White]

I'll second Al.

 

[nksyoon]

I started with Convert to B&W Pro but it's no longer supported. Then tried Alien Skin Exposure, now prefer Nik Silver Efex Pro.

In Silver Efex Pro I like using the "High Structure" preset and modifying settings from there. Another favourite is the Plus X film setting.

 

[Crane]

Hello Tony,

I use Silver Efex Pro as a Lightroom plug-in as part of my workflow with the M8, the RD-1, and lately an LX3. The program is stable and intuitive to use, but requires taste and restraint to avoid tipping over into kitsch. Especially interesting to you, I think (having checked out your site), are the useful vignette and edge burning tools which may be applied with great subtlety, and really offer the range of effects one is able to achieve with traditional darkroom printing. Nik offers a generous 30-day, fully-functional demonstration version on their site. If you can spare the time, I think you will find the program useful.

In addition to SEP, I also use Alien Software's "Bokeh", again available as a fully-working demonstration version. Used sparingly, it really can work to contribute to the look you're after. I also like using it unsubtly with 'crossprocessing' or toning, where appropriate, to produce lomo-like imagery.

As with all off-the-shelf filters and effects programmes, one should seek to develop one's own workflow and 'look'. That said,
some of the presets Nik offers are good starting points for exploration.

Neither of these programmes comes cheap, but, at least for me, they are essential elements of the modern toolkit.

I hope the above helps you in the development of your work.

Crane

 

[napoleonesq]

Thanks alot for the tip and insight ! I may download the demo and try it out.

 

[Bébèrt]

Indeed a good and proven workflow Al Kaplan.
For the digital users there are several workflow's.

-first stick with wath you got, Lightroom, and go to develop 🙂rolleyes🙂
roll down the left menu until you find the HSL / Color / Grayscale tab. Select Grayscale and click the little bullseye. Now move your mouse over the image, click and drag on those parts of your foto that you like to darken, lighten, change the contrast ...

-if you're needs are not yet fulfilled, look for plug-ins ore buy Adobe CS4 and master the different techniques of B&W conversion.

 

[russianRF]

As much as I get annoyed by the analogue fanboys trampling through digital-focused forums, I feel for them this time.

B&W film is not that hard. No, stop it. Stop with your excuses right there. It just ISN'T. By the time you've mastered Nik's Silver Efex, you could have mastered a film/dev combo. By the time you're done adjusting a photo to get it looking "just right," you could have developed a roll of film. These plugins are complex, difficult-to-master tools in their own right; they're not one-click Cartier-Bresson makers. Take the money you would have spent on Silver Efex and get yourself a scanner.

I guess the reason I'm breaking ranks and siding with the analogue fanboys here is because I'm so tired of the holy grail of "film like." It's like someone squishing up a plate of pasta to make it look like a pizza, when the pizza parlour is just down the road.

I don't know. I feel like if you have an itch to buy software, Viveza or Color Efex Pro (both from Nik) would open up more vistas in image-making than yet another film-grain plugin. CS3 and later even comes with a built-in B&W filter. I can understand if you want a specific look that comes from an out-of-production film, sure, but I didn't get that sense from your post.

Maybe it's time to sit back and ask *why* you want a "film-like" look, and what it really means to you. Is it really intregal to your vision as an artist? Or is it something "cool" you've seen others do and you'd like to imitate them?

Finally, are you certain it's the digital side of things that's letting you down? Different lenses produce radically different results, and seem more "film-like" in the sense that they give richer, more retro-styled color and contrast. It would suck to spend lots of money on film-grain plugins only to learn that the "look" you want is really acheived through a very specific lens, film or digital.

Maybe, in the end, I'm just prejudiced because I feel digital-to-film coversion offers the worst of both worlds: you lose the "warmth" of the anlogue film, and you also sacrifice the cold, piercing precision that the digital image could have given you. Have you thought about B&W conversions that don't add any extra grain (e.g. Photoshop's)?

 

[jaapv]

Digital B&W should, imo, NOT be film-like. I am a strong advocate of the school: If it has to look like film, shoot film (and process it chemically all the way, don't fart around with scanning and trying to get something from an inkjet printer that looks acceptable -it can be done, but only the fewest are expert enough)

B&W on digital can be great, if treated in its own right.

I have basically three methods.

The first is to use the B&W profiles in C1, especially the yellow-filter one is rather good. Then, in Photoshop adjust the curves, contrast and shadows/highlights.

Two: Use the B&W conversion tool in C4. Quite good as well, but more work to get right:

Three: Use Alien Skin Exposure and walk through the "film" names with the grain off. Quite good, but it still needs tweaking to get the right pop and sparkle. The easiest way to get the gradation right in one go.

I have not yet decided which method I like best. There is a good chance I never will...😱
Oh yes one thing I very often go into the lens correction tool and add some vignetting.

 

[adavis47]

Before you buy any plug ins you might look at the Lightroom Presets that are available on the Web, many are free and there are plenty that do conversions to black and white and attempt to mimic film.

 

[kully]

I wouldn't say what someone else should not do (e.g. emulate the film look in digital) - we all do this because we like it, no?

I use Photoshop raw converter to give me something slightly low-contrast and then feed it into SilverEfexPro. My most used 'film type' is Pan F+, followed by Neopan1600.

You get a free trial period and it's lovely to work with (although I am trying to figure out a way to adjust previously applied settings). Give it a go and if your stuff turns out looking like film and you like it - great!

PS The good thing about this digital stuff is you can work on photos when you like, without mixing up chemicals and going to your dark den.

I knocked up the following whilst on the train (both SilverEfexPro):

 

[Ben Z]

If it has to look like film, shoot film (and process it chemically all the way, don't fart around with scanning and trying to get something from an inkjet printer that looks acceptable -it can be done, but only the fewest are expert enough)

I'm relieved to hear I'm not the only one who thinks so. I do process my own b&w film, but unfortunately I confess to scanning, simply because I was never any good with an enlarger or trays of chemicals, my prints always came out like cr@p no matter how hard I tried (well, I suppose I just didn't try hard enough) and for me, the scans+inkjet look a lot better even though I'm hardly an expert at it. My workflow? Fiddle with brightness and contrast (maybe curves if I'm feeling up to it), desaturate and print. I have HP printers with the black and gray ink. I hear there are better b&w conversion tools in CS3 but I haven't upgraded yet.

 

[Richard Marks]

I'm relieved to hear I'm not the only one who thinks so. I do process my own b&w film, but unfortunately I confess to scanning, simply because I was never any good with an enlarger or trays of chemicals, my prints always came out like cr@p no matter how hard I tried (well, I suppose I just didn't try hard enough) and for me, the scans+inkjet look a lot better even though I'm hardly an expert at it. My workflow? Fiddle with brightness and contrast (maybe curves if I'm feeling up to it), desaturate and print. I have HP printers with the black and gray ink. I hear there are better b&w conversion tools in CS3 but I haven't upgraded yet.

Ben and Jaap
I agree if you want 'film like' then shoot film. I do and still have a darkroom. But not every one has the time or space for a darkroom. Another real issue is keeping consistency. There is no shortage of Ilford paper and film but certainly availability of other brands in the UK is a problem. I end up bulk panic buying when the boat comes in with my precious Foma! There are only a handful of mail order suppliers left and it does not exactly feel secure.

Richard

 

[chris91387]

i use cs4 and convert raw files to jpg and try to keep as much details in shadows and highlights as possible. once in cs4 i use nik silver efx to convert to b&w. avoid thinking that any of the preset films mean anything. i click on a few to see what i like best then go from there. i like the sliders in nik where you can alter individual colors to change just that color's b&w interpretation. like, making the reds go more black. from nik the options are endless. i dont like toning in nik and usually just use ps duotones.

never tried lightroom.

 

[Larky]

My workflow depends, but it normally starts with either a conversion in Aperture followed by exporting to Photoshop, or working with Silver Efex. I tend to normally go into Photoshop to adjust eyes anyway, unless it's a wide shot. I also use Viveza to adjust the lighting. I'm still working on my way of working, but I think really every shot requires different attention.

 

[rpsawin]

I use Ilford Multigrade, usually DuPont Varilour filters, and Dektol. I get very film like results.

Isn't that cheating.....?😀

Best,

Bob