HHPhoto
Well-known
Concerning service technicians I think we can relax for the future:
Young technicians will learn the craft.
Look at the classic car and airplane business: Young and very enthusiastic technicians are repairing cars and airplanes which are 50, 60, 70 and even 100 years old.
When there is a market, and there is definitely a market for classic cameras (as we e.g. see in this forum here), then there will be repair technicians, too.
We have lots of young film photographers, so why not also have young(er) technicians.
Cheers, Jan
airfrogusmc
Veteran
Have you shot with an MM? The IQ is compared to the D800 because there is no color. I love my MM because of the lack of all that crap it doesn't have. I mean how long did it take Leica M to put a meter in the camera. Leica's death is if they try to compete with the big two or even Sony. They need to be a real alternative to those cameras. If they remain a camera (Leica M) that still desires to keep the photographer involved they will be an alternative to the gadget heavy auto everything the others are producing.
Peter_S
Peter_S
OT but: So is Voigtländer - and knowing their staff a bit I can tell you that they are very committed to film and worth supporting.
HHPhoto
Well-known
Yes.
Best 35mm SLR ever made. I love mine, using and enjoying it a lot!
I will never give it away.
Cheers, Jan
airfrogusmc
Veteran
I would argue for the Canon F-1 or Nikon F..
I agree completely... with no M, there will be no Leica (unless the S2 is selling a lot better than I think).
HHPhoto
Well-known
+1.
The S2 is in a very tiny "niche in the niche in the niche market".
Hasselblad said that the whole worldwide digital medium format camera market is only about 5,000 units p.a. (and declining).
And in this extremely tiny market Hasselblad, Leaf/PhaseOne/Mamiya, Leica, Pentax and DHW are competing.
It's murderous.
Cheers, Jan
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Vobluda
Well-known
The only reason for decline in sales of digital cameras are mobile phones.
You can easily find statistics on their sale or for example see flicker statistics on the most used cameras - currently most popular cameras are (!):
You can easily find statistics on their sale or for example see flicker statistics on the most used cameras - currently most popular cameras are (!):
- Apple iPhone 5s
- Apple iPhone 5
- Samsung Galaxy S4
- Galaxy S5
- Apple iPhone 6
robert blu
quiet photographer
The reasons for which I mentioned film photography are two, one is that it seems me there are very fewer complaints about film Ms than about digital Ms.
Second reason is more personal, loving the hybrid workflow I realize how much it all depend on my scanner and if one day it will not work anymore there will be not many alternatives...
Yes, Leica is M, small, simple, excellent quality...
robert
Second reason is more personal, loving the hybrid workflow I realize how much it all depend on my scanner and if one day it will not work anymore there will be not many alternatives...
Yes, Leica is M, small, simple, excellent quality...
robert
mani
Well-known
I’d like to know exactly which part this is? Then I’ll check with Leica customer service whether it’s available.
As others have pointed-out, there’s hardly been a time when customers could choose from such a nice, and diverse, selection of Leica film cameras. It will hardly have mass-market appeal ever again, but then that isn’t the niche that Leica digital cameras have tried to fill, either.
The suggestion above to release a quality film scanner would definitely have my support: there hardly goes a day when I don’t read a blog post, or a forum thread somewhere, asking, begging hoping for some manufacturer to do exactly this. Just like the selling synergy of camera bodies and lenses, adding a quality, reliable scanner would energise a whole sector of Leica’s market. This is especially true when the sector they’ve been aiming for the last few years (the enormously cash-rich elites of emerging markets) has begun to waver.
In any case, if Leica’s medium-term future is really in doubt (and we don’t know if it is) given the choice of buying a new digital or new film M, then it’s obvious to me which one would be easier to fix and maintain if the company itself were to disappear.
airfrogusmc
Veteran
There is a lot less to go wrong with film camera that's not an electronic nightmare. Look at how many 50 year old Leica Ms are still just carking away.
I have had no trouble with my MM. 30K+ and over two years no issues Knock on wood. Can't say the same for my Canons. All 4 had issues by 2 years and 30K.
HHPhoto
Well-known
Sorry, but that is completely wrong.
All market researchers are contradicting you.
Look at the official CIPA statistics:
Even DSLRs and mirrorless cameras had significantly sale decreases in the last years (DSLRs in 20-25% p.a. range).
Not only compact cams which are indeed significantly hit by smartphone usage.
And if I ask my photographer friends why they don't update their DSLRs they tell me:
- no money
- new camera too expensive for the negligible advantages offered
- current camera do what wanted.
Same with me: I don't update for the same reasons (and because I am increasingly enjoying film again).
Cheers, Jan
Scheelings
Well-known
That says more about the teaching profession than anything else. In my view in today's world (1st world), that is not a liveable wage.
Michael Markey
Veteran
Unfortunately non of this will make the slightest difference if they aren`t selling product.
Indications suggest that they aren`t and are still discounting.
Indications suggest that they aren`t and are still discounting.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Cosina, you might know what Bessa R series is and some others for lomography (please, no "snob" comments about these).
airfrogusmc
Veteran
For me I will not be upgrading the from MM because it is more than enough camera so no reason to upgrade. I will shoot with it until it dies and I can no longer get it repaired.
I remember when Leica M was twice the price of the top of the line Canons and Nikons. Looks like the big 2 caught up price wise.
I remember when Leica M was twice the price of the top of the line Canons and Nikons. Looks like the big 2 caught up price wise.
ColSebastianMoran
( IRL Richard Karash )
Not completely wrong, but not a full picture.
I think the biggest thing here is the natural curve for a breakthrough product: a big peak as you sell everyone, then sales fall off because everyone already has it.
Here's some of the market dynamic I see:
- Once image quality got good enough, many bought DSLRs
- For a while, new cameras were much better for the user than previous generations (D70 anyone?), so many upgraded their kit
- Now, most people who are candidates for DSLRs have already bought two, the new offerings aren't that much better for them, they are shooting a lot with their ever-better iPhone cameras, and the economy has made everyone cautious. Therefore DSLR sales down, a lot. We say, "running out of market."
- And, mirrorless. Smaller cameras, less expensive, same image quality. Takes another bite out of DSLR sales. And, mirrorless follows the same sequence: most people who are candidates for a $1000 mirrorless kit already have two.
- Walking around the public streets and events, photography is alive and well. The market for camera kits in the $1000 range is still there for some, but well down.
noisycheese
Normal(ish) Human
As much as these specials revolt me personally I still think Leica are making great cameras. I have no regrets at all about buying a 240 last year ... price aside it offers a level of versatility that has been lacking in their digital flagship up until now and I expect to own it for quite a while.
If I came into money I wouldn't hesitate to own the MM as well.
It's not all bad IMO.
What Keith said.
Leica will find a way out of the current sales slump, IMO. A lot of companies in a lot of industries are experiencing the same thing; apparently eliminating the middle class is not such a great idea after all. Some companies will figure things out and survive, some will not. I don't see Leica turning in to the elephant man (AKA Hasselblad).
Leica has offerings that are affordable for most photographers of modest means such as the D-LUX (109), V-LUX (114), C, X (113), X Vario, X-E (102) and X2. If they can figure out how to effectively markes these cameras, they could serve as Leica's financial life boat.
The new M cameras and lenses offered in the Leica shops are more for the most passionate/committed/insane/obsessive photographers. The prices of these pieces of kit put them in the "not for everyone" category. Some non-wealthy photographers somehow come in to money and acquire them; others save and sacrifice to afford them; others forsake Rolex watches, motorcycles, jet skis, vintage sports cars, giant 4X4 trucks or bass boats to afford them. If you want something badly enough, you can get it if you are willing to sacrifice to have it.
The prices of the nonsense cameras and kits such as the M60, Lenny Kravitz (the Poser's Special) and other past regrets such as the orange Herpes (Hermes) M7 make them the province of the celibritwat and billionaire classes. I have never seen an actual working photographer buy and use any of these poser cameras.
Then there's the S2 camera and lenses, which seems to be aimed at New York City fashion photographers who are raking in $300,000+ per year. They are welcome to the S2, as the M system does everything I want it to and is IMHO superior to the S system.
Given the above, it sounds as if Leica is trying to offer something for everyone.
For those who want an M camera but find a new M240 and 2-3 new lenses out of reach, I would recommend an M3, M4-P, M5 or M6 and a couple of pre-owned M lenses. While this kind of kit is not digital, these cameras and lenses are in no way settling for less. In some ways, vintage M cameras and lenses outshine their newer brethren.
Bottom line:
If new M gear is out of reach money-wise and you ache for a Leica M camera, forget about the new M digital cameras and get yourself a pre-owned film M camera. These are some of the best cameras ever made.
Shooting with a pre-owned film based Leica M beats hell out of being angry and bitter over the cost of an M240 that is out of reach.
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
Even the upgrade from the D70 generation might mostly have been motivated by the next generation of DSLRs eliminating the need to own a separate video camera - in terms of photography, the average consumer will hardly have felt the lack of anything once they owned a household print size and computer screen out-resolving camera with all the automation options of a F100 plus some.
And past video, there is not really that much they can add any more.
airfrogusmc
Veteran
Leica m has always been in the not for everyone price range.