From Leica News & Rumors:
"Some reports even suggest that Blackstone Capital is looking to quickly 'dump' their Leica investment and Panasonic is most likely the candidate for replacement. There have been unconfirmed reports that Leica recently posted internal losses in all but 2 global markets which could explain the recent US discounts. There seems to be also some issues with licensing fees for the use of the Leica brand name."
Read more on LeicaRumors.com: http://leicarumors.com/2015/03/02/blackstone-is-not-happy-with-leica.aspx/#ixzz3TKOTArej
"Some reports even suggest that Blackstone Capital is looking to quickly 'dump' their Leica investment and Panasonic is most likely the candidate for replacement. There have been unconfirmed reports that Leica recently posted internal losses in all but 2 global markets which could explain the recent US discounts. There seems to be also some issues with licensing fees for the use of the Leica brand name."
Read more on LeicaRumors.com: http://leicarumors.com/2015/03/02/blackstone-is-not-happy-with-leica.aspx/#ixzz3TKOTArej
kshapero
South Florida Man
The answer my friend is blowing in the wind.
newsgrunt
Well-known
has this ship sailed or can they steer another course. interesting rumour nonetheless 
zuiko85
Veteran
Admit I'm not up on the business world but I thought Leica Cameras is privately owned.
Well, Leica has tough going with its biz model. It is the only cam out there that is sickly overpriced with a second rate sensor and has to make it work. On the other hand it is the only camera out there with such superb fit and finish, rangefinder and one of the few with a shutter speed dial. The only reasons I use Leica are shutter speed dial, rangefinder, small footprint and simplicity.
Also the cell phone cam market takes a monster share of potential sales from all cam companies. Finally the trend to keep making minor mods and coming out with newer models with more mp's keeps the cam companies scrambling to play catch-up.
I don't pretend to have an answer for Leica.
In the old days Life photogs would have 9 Leicas in their stable. They would carry 3 on them while on assignment, keep 3 at the hotel for back-up and have 3 at home in reserve or getting CLA'd. Who can afford doing that nowadays with a Leica?
I do that with my Fuji's. (Have 6 or 7 of them at any given time.)
http://testarchives.tumblr.com/image/112602305509
Well, Life and most every other outlet for the photojournalist has dried up with the invention of digital and cell phone cams. So support for the cam companies by pro doc photogs is very small. What keeps the cam companies in biz is the camera fondlers.
Don't know what a camera fondler is? Here is an example...
http://testarchives.tumblr.com/image/112603126604
This photo of my computer screen is from the Fuji forum I used to be on. (They kicked me out cause they don't like me using the term camera fondler.) What else can you say about someone that spends more time changing buttons that pressing the button? All you ever hear are threads about what did you buy...what are you planning to buy? Why not what did you shoot...what are you planning to shoot?
I routinely get my cameras, lenses and flashes destroyed where I shoot. No big deal, I buy used X-E1's, used, cheap lenses and the Fuji's are disposable.
http://rangefindercamera2.tumblr.com/image/110895536882
http://rangefindercamera2.tumblr.com/image/110895608237
http://rangefindercamera2.tumblr.com/image/110895894887
http://rangefindercamera2.tumblr.com/image/110895658657
http://rangefindercamera2.tumblr.com/image/110895767812
http://rangefindercamera2.tumblr.com/image/110895858077
While I had 5 Leica's, then pared down to 4, (2 M240's and 2 MM's.) I have to be very careful where I shoot them. I love the controls on the Leicas but can't afford risking losing them. Consequently I may only use them 20% to 30% of the time. On some projects it is 0%.
To me Leica has lost its way. They produce a beautiful camera when it comes to fit and finish. The manual controls are impeccable. Where Leica falls short is their sensors they use are always second rate. (OK, the MM ha a sharp sensor, but it tends to blow highlights.) But, I can't preach to Leica too much about losing its way, as the map has changed from the way Leica used to do biz. I guess Leica needs to make all these crazy collector cams to keep afloat.
For the price Leica charges they should be the standard in sensors that the other guys are always trying to catch up to. But as it is, Leica is always on the bottom end of sensors in the industry. I much prefer the sensor in my little Fuji over my M240's. But the Fuji has screwy controls and I prefer the controls of the Leica. While I shoot both Fuji and Leica with a love / hate relationship with both systems.
To fix this problem the Japanese need to make a true Leica FF knockoff with one of Fuji's stupendous sensors in it and sell it for $2500. I'd gladly move away from Leica if there was another rangefinder alternative. While I love Leica, I don't fondle em...I shoot my cams.
Also the cell phone cam market takes a monster share of potential sales from all cam companies. Finally the trend to keep making minor mods and coming out with newer models with more mp's keeps the cam companies scrambling to play catch-up.
I don't pretend to have an answer for Leica.
In the old days Life photogs would have 9 Leicas in their stable. They would carry 3 on them while on assignment, keep 3 at the hotel for back-up and have 3 at home in reserve or getting CLA'd. Who can afford doing that nowadays with a Leica?
I do that with my Fuji's. (Have 6 or 7 of them at any given time.)
http://testarchives.tumblr.com/image/112602305509
Well, Life and most every other outlet for the photojournalist has dried up with the invention of digital and cell phone cams. So support for the cam companies by pro doc photogs is very small. What keeps the cam companies in biz is the camera fondlers.
Don't know what a camera fondler is? Here is an example...
http://testarchives.tumblr.com/image/112603126604
This photo of my computer screen is from the Fuji forum I used to be on. (They kicked me out cause they don't like me using the term camera fondler.) What else can you say about someone that spends more time changing buttons that pressing the button? All you ever hear are threads about what did you buy...what are you planning to buy? Why not what did you shoot...what are you planning to shoot?
I routinely get my cameras, lenses and flashes destroyed where I shoot. No big deal, I buy used X-E1's, used, cheap lenses and the Fuji's are disposable.
http://rangefindercamera2.tumblr.com/image/110895536882
http://rangefindercamera2.tumblr.com/image/110895608237
http://rangefindercamera2.tumblr.com/image/110895894887
http://rangefindercamera2.tumblr.com/image/110895658657
http://rangefindercamera2.tumblr.com/image/110895767812
http://rangefindercamera2.tumblr.com/image/110895858077
While I had 5 Leica's, then pared down to 4, (2 M240's and 2 MM's.) I have to be very careful where I shoot them. I love the controls on the Leicas but can't afford risking losing them. Consequently I may only use them 20% to 30% of the time. On some projects it is 0%.
To me Leica has lost its way. They produce a beautiful camera when it comes to fit and finish. The manual controls are impeccable. Where Leica falls short is their sensors they use are always second rate. (OK, the MM ha a sharp sensor, but it tends to blow highlights.) But, I can't preach to Leica too much about losing its way, as the map has changed from the way Leica used to do biz. I guess Leica needs to make all these crazy collector cams to keep afloat.
For the price Leica charges they should be the standard in sensors that the other guys are always trying to catch up to. But as it is, Leica is always on the bottom end of sensors in the industry. I much prefer the sensor in my little Fuji over my M240's. But the Fuji has screwy controls and I prefer the controls of the Leica. While I shoot both Fuji and Leica with a love / hate relationship with both systems.
To fix this problem the Japanese need to make a true Leica FF knockoff with one of Fuji's stupendous sensors in it and sell it for $2500. I'd gladly move away from Leica if there was another rangefinder alternative. While I love Leica, I don't fondle em...I shoot my cams.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Well, it is hardly surprising... Dr. Kaufmann a Leica fan who took a huge financial risk to save the company, and Blackstone a financial giant with one priority: Profit maximizing, regardless of everything else.
The potential for conflict is high.
The question was never whether the company would continue under their participation, the question is the state it will be in when they pull out.
The potential for conflict is high.
The question was never whether the company would continue under their participation, the question is the state it will be in when they pull out.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
It is: 55% ACM (Dr.Kaufmann) and 45% Blackstone.
Michael Markey
Veteran
I`m not surprised ...they`ve taken a hard nosed look and don`t like what they see.
Over extended with a product line which has so far failed to deliver and in some cases is actually costing them more money.
Over extended with a product line which has so far failed to deliver and in some cases is actually costing them more money.
airfrogusmc
Veteran
I have a couple of clients that had Blackstone as a major investor and they are doing much better without them. I think probably because of pressure from a just pure investment perspective that Leica has tried to become more like the big two instead of being what they need to be and what they have always been a real alternative. They need to get back to what they do and have done well instead trying to be something they are not and can never be. One size fits all.
kbg32
neo-romanticist
I can see a day when Leica will only exist in museums if they don't get their act together. "Lenny Kravitz" special editions can only take the company so far. It's not something the company can bank on.
Huss
Veteran
Just to give you an idea as to out of whack Leica prices are, an M3 with Summicron 50 in 1953 was $447. Adjusted for inflation that would be the equivalent of $3912.62 today.
http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=447&year1=1953&year2=2015
A Leica M-A, the M3 equivalent, today costs $4750. A Summicron 50 2.0 costs $2100.
Total $6850. A price increase of almost $3000.
Yeah, the prices are nuts today.
http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=447&year1=1953&year2=2015
A Leica M-A, the M3 equivalent, today costs $4750. A Summicron 50 2.0 costs $2100.
Total $6850. A price increase of almost $3000.
Yeah, the prices are nuts today.
Vobluda
Well-known
danielsterno
making soup from mud
Paddy C
Unused film collector
Although I'm not qualified to comment on such issues, I will…
What I find strange is why a company like Blackstone would even want to invest in Leica. I mean what were they thinking? That Leica was magically going to become Canon?
What I find strange is why a company like Blackstone would even want to invest in Leica. I mean what were they thinking? That Leica was magically going to become Canon?
jarski
Veteran
yes. perhaps a pet project of someone inside at the time having a correct momentum. as Jaapv mentioned, only a matter of time when its over.
rscheffler
Well-known
There is a great variety of potentially conflicting directions Leica should take in the opinions of forum pundits. This is potentially echoed by the interests of those with financial stakes in the company.
As I've posted elsewhere, it can't be easy holding the reins of Leica. The customer base is not huge compared to Canikon, yet seems to be very demanding and likely splintered by tightly focused interests and/or requirements. There is a call for a return to Leica's roots - simplicity, dropping out of the rat race of frequent updates/upgrades. There are those of opposing opinions, demanding elimination of the RF and adoption of technology comparable or better to the best found in Canikonyujipusonicoh. There are many other voices in between. Which way is the right way? I suppose that is all relative to one's point of view...
As I've posted elsewhere, it can't be easy holding the reins of Leica. The customer base is not huge compared to Canikon, yet seems to be very demanding and likely splintered by tightly focused interests and/or requirements. There is a call for a return to Leica's roots - simplicity, dropping out of the rat race of frequent updates/upgrades. There are those of opposing opinions, demanding elimination of the RF and adoption of technology comparable or better to the best found in Canikonyujipusonicoh. There are many other voices in between. Which way is the right way? I suppose that is all relative to one's point of view...
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Well, investing in a company because one believes in it is hardly to be called philantropy.
danielsterno
making soup from mud
Not sure what your perception of "over" is, while I agree BUT I think the Brand of Leica is a good purchase for a Panasonic ? Unless Leica Management want to survive, they need to do think aggressively to infuse a more "photo enthusiast consumer friendly" pricing and broader market strategy, I can not see them surviving in this digital market with selling $25k special edition Lenny cameras…..
I would imagine they cannot survive competing on price with others... and I would imagine special editions are actually helping Leica.
BillBingham2
Registered User
IMHO we are still in a recession here in the States and my read is much of the rest of the world too. While China's middle class growth continues it's about the only place where people might have the desire and cash.
Wages for new jobs here in the states are still depressed with hope on the horizon but it's still a ways out there.
Companies are doing well but that is because they have wisely refrained from plowing money into too much grown. My read is that they are not increasing pay because there do not have to.
B2