Blank rolls of film --why?

[anerjee]

My last three self-dev rolls came out blank -- completely blank -- no film markings, nothing at all.

I've been using the same equipment all along (I bought it many years ago) -- Patterson 2 roll tank, changing bag.

The first time it happened, I thought I had switched chemicals or something like that. I changed my working fixer solution, to be safe. I never re-use developer, so that was not an issue.

The second time, I paid attention and was mindful. So it was not a mistake. I was suspicious of the fixer, so I junked the working solution and also the bottle (Ilford). I went and bought a new bottle.

Now a third time! I tested the new fixer and it cleared the film as expected.

It is not a camera issue, as I've run color C41 through it, and the lab developed it just fine.

I'm at a loss to think of what else could go wrong? I'm thinking of junking my entire processing equipment and starting with fresh stuff. I'm not a newbie, I've developed several hundred rolls over the last many years, so this is soul crushingly humbling.

Details -
Film -- Arista Premium 400 (old, but kept in a freezer)
Developer -- Rodinal or Microphen.
Fixer -- Ilford

 

[Bill Clark]

Sounds to me like a developer issue.

 

[anerjee]

Sounds to me like a developer issue.

I've tried Rodinal (Adox version) twice and microphen once. But I will junk them as well and get fresh developer concentrates. I think both of these concentrates are more than 6 months old .

 

[Mjd-djm]

Are there markings visible on the edge of the film or is the whole thing completely blank?that will narrow it down by eliminating either camera problems or developing problems.

 

[anerjee]

Blank, nothing at all. No edge markings.

 

[Mjd-djm]

Ok, that definitely suggests a development / fixing issue. Could the film have been exposed to light at any point? I've only experienced this once using out of date Ilfosol 3 developer which had gone a murky colour. Worked one day, didn't the next. From that point on I switched to Ilfotec DDX which has a much better shelf like once open. No problems since then. How long has you container of developer been open? Is it still within date?

 

[Mjd-djm]

Btw it is devastating when you lose your photos like that. 1 roll was enough to put me on a downer. But like you said, it's a lesson in humility. I guess the Digital version of this is corrupting a full sd card.

 

[jsrockit]

Have you successfully developed a roll from this batch of film? Could it be an issue with the film?

 

[anerjee]

Have you successfully developed a roll from this batch of film? Could it be an issue with the film?

Yes, many rolls, but thats a nagging question.

I bought 100+ rolls of Arista Premium 400 in 2012 or 2013, and have been shooting it since then. I keep my stash is a freezer. but the film is expired for more than a year now.

If it is a developer issue, would the failure be so dramatic? I would expect reduced speed etc, not completely blank film?

 

[shawn]

I'm still using Arista Premium 400 from around the same time frame and it is shooting fine. I jsut developed a roll yesterday. Also frozen for storage.

Shawn

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

Blank? As in, clear? Or exposed? Important distinction. If the films are 100% clear no edge codes it sounds like you've mistaken your fixer for your developer...

 

[BLKRCAT]

If the film clears its not the fixer thats the problem.

Your film isnt developing. Have you developed anything from any other stock? Perhaps they had some quality control issue and the film simply isn't photosensitive.

I would try:

Developing a totally different stock

Exposing a length of your problem stock to full light and developing, this should give you a fully black film, to see if it is a QC issue

Stand developing for 2 hours the problem stock to see if it is a developer issue. Even if the developer is weak, the length of time should still give you a latent image.

 

[Mjd-djm]

If it is a developer issue, would the failure be so dramatic? I would expect reduced speed etc, not completely blank film?[/QUOTE]

That's what I assumed too. But my developer was getting off colour and eventually got quite murky but the rolls looked ok, no difference in performance. Then one day it just didn't work... I had a completely blank film. I definitely didn't mix fixer with developer. After some research it seems like it was a common problem with that developer.

 

[crsantin]

I once mistakenly developed with fixer and the roll came out completely blank and clean like you're describing. I don't have any experience with your developers. I use Ilfosol 3 and it has a very short shelf life, maybe two weeks, once you break the seal. I tried using some Ilfosol 3 that had obviously gone bad but it didn't blank the film. It sounds like your fixer is wiping your negatives clean. How long are you fixing for? If it's Ilford rapid fixer you don't need much time for fixing.

 

[shawn]

Any chance of fixer or stop bath contaminating your developer?

Shawn

 

[Corran]

Developer -- Rodinal or Microphen.

But which one did you use for the failure(s)?

I don't know anything about Microphen but the Rodinal should be fine unless you contaminated with stop or fixer, or something else. What you describe sounds like the complete and total failure I've experienced with XTOL on occasion, and why I totally ditched it for years.

I really don't think it's the film - it's just repackaged Kodak Tri-X after all. I am also still using some of the Arista Premium 400 from that era and I don't know of any reported issues from the many, many other people that shoot/shot the same.

Switching your dev/fix is possible but as you say, you aren't a newbie and doing that 3 times in a row seems implausible. It definitely sounds like a dev problem. If your Rodinal is really low in the bottle maybe there's a chance that it failed. No edge markings and no leader development means it's definitely the development stage - either the chemicals failing, contamination of the developer, or accidental fixing. I assume your dilution ratio is fine.

 

[x-ray]

Mix fresh developer and clip a piece of film that's been exposed to light like the leader of the roll. Pour some developer in a tray and run the clipped piece in daylight. If it turns black your developer is ok if not it's bad. Easy test.

Fixed has nothing to do with it. The film is just not getting developed whether wrong chemical or totally dead developer which is unlikely.

Any chance someone sabotaged your developer by putting stop or fixed in it?

 

[anerjee]

Unlikely. I will test with fresh film and fresh developer today.

Mix fresh developer and clip a piece of film that's been exposed to light like the leader of the roll. Pour some developer in a tray and run the clipped piece in daylight. If it turns black your developer is ok if not it's bad. Easy test.

Fixed has nothing to do with it. The film is just not getting developed whether wrong chemical or totally dead developer which is unlikely.

Any chance someone sabotaged your developer by putting stop or fixed in it?

 

[x-ray]

Do the clip test as I suggested. It will tell you without question if your developer is active.Was it microphen you were using or Rodinal? I don't know anything about microphone but it have used Rodinal since the 60's. If you're pre mixing Rodinal to working strength and holding it for a day or so it's likely oxidizing enough to kill the activity. Rodinal at working strength oxidizes extremely easily. I dont know If you're doing that though. Diluted Working strength should be mixed just before use and then discarded.

 

[Larry H-L]

Agree with others and X-ray that it is a developer issue. Do not mix Rodinal style developers untill just before use, if diluted it goes dead quickly. Clip test your Microphen.