seany65
Well-known
Wasn't sure where to put this, but I can't think of anywhere particularly suitable.
I'm thinking about getting a 'Box' camera and was wondering if anyone knows anything about ones that take 120 film, maybe have doublet lenses, have 2 or 3 apertures and maybe a couple of shutter speeds?
Any help would be much appreciated.
I'm thinking about getting a 'Box' camera and was wondering if anyone knows anything about ones that take 120 film, maybe have doublet lenses, have 2 or 3 apertures and maybe a couple of shutter speeds?
Any help would be much appreciated.
02Pilot
Malcontent
I have a few that qualify as box cameras, though only one that fits your description - the Ilford Craftsman. Not sure about the lens, but I'm guessing it's a meniscus rather than a doublet. 6x6, two speeds (1/25 and 1/75, plus bulb) and two apertures (f/9 and f/18), plus infinitely variable focusing from 4 feet to infinity. Nice bright focusing glass with a pop-up hood. Bakelite body. Definitely on the high end of box cameras. The lens has an interesting character to it, especially at f/9. A sample:
My others are much simpler. The usual single speed, single aperture, fixed focus type things. They can be a lot of fun to use, and the results are often better than expected. I reversed the lens on my Brownie Hawkeye because the photos with it in the proper orientation were too good for what I wanted from a cheap box camera.
My others are much simpler. The usual single speed, single aperture, fixed focus type things. They can be a lot of fun to use, and the results are often better than expected. I reversed the lens on my Brownie Hawkeye because the photos with it in the proper orientation were too good for what I wanted from a cheap box camera.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
What do you want to do with it?
I have a Kodak that my late father bought in the 1940s.
It's much more use as a curio or sentimental souvenir than as a camera.
Cheers,
R.
I have a Kodak that my late father bought in the 1940s.
It's much more use as a curio or sentimental souvenir than as a camera.
Cheers,
R.
tunalegs
Pretended Artist
You're not really going to find anything like that, that is still a box-form camera, unless you step up to the entry level (or pseudo) TLR bracket.
For actual box cameras, the Zeiss Ikon Box Tengor series does offer selectable apertures and focus zones and are quite well made for box cameras. The Ensign "All Distance" box cameras also have similar flexibility.
If you want actual, variable shutter speeds, something like a Reflekta or Ricohflex TLR is about as basic/boxy as you're going to find. If you want a very simple 120 camera that's not shaped like a box, there are plenty, like the Koroll cameras, Isolas, and many others.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Lubitel?
Cheers,
R.
Cheers,
R.
mconnealy
Well-known
There are quite a few European box cameras that offer 120 film format and more than just fixed focus, aperture and speed. The Frontar lens on the Box-Tengor is nice, though the low, fixed speed is difficult for me to hand hold. You might consider the Agfa Clack and the Vredeborch Felica; I think they both have meniscus lenses, but they can produce quite nice images.
p.giannakis
Pan Giannakis
Maybe Agfa Synchro Box? It has two aperture settings (8 and 16), one filter (yellow) and one shutter speed plus "B".
Here are a few pictures taken with it.
Here are a few pictures taken with it.
citizen99
Well-known
You might like to look here
https://www.flickr.com/groups/box-tengor_gallery/pool/
https://www.flickr.com/groups/box-tengor_gallery/pool/
Mr_Flibble
In Tabulas Argenteas Refero
I haven't put film through a box in a while....
Kodak No.2 Mod. F
Kodak No.2 Mod. F
Muggins
Junk magnet
Rick has beaten me in suggesting the No 2 Model F Brownie - only one shutter speed and a meniscus lens, but three Waterhouse stops giving a degree of control over depth of field.
The results far outweigh the camer and, sadly, my skill.
Adrian
The results far outweigh the camer and, sadly, my skill.
Adrian
seany65
Well-known
Thanks for the replies and the suggestions.
@O2pilot, I've just done a quick google on your ilford Craftsman. Apparently it's got 2 cemented components in the lens, and the other features are as you said. It was apparently issued to police forces at crime scene investigations! Well, according to http://www.photomemorabilia.co.uk/Ilford/Craftsman.html
That pic you posted does actually look quite good, considering the camera and it's age.
@tunalegs, I have seen a couple of descriptions which say the lens is a doublet or has 2 cemented elements, and I've seen some which show that there a 2 or 3 apertures and even some with a couple of different speeds and even with adjustable focusing (although on at least one camera this means moving the lens in camera). So I'm sure with a bit of hunting I'll be able to find a couple that I'd consider. I really just looking for one on which I can use a speed quicker than "too ruddy slow" such as 1/25th-1/30th, which I've just found out box tengors have.
I have been considering TLR's as well, but I'd be getting one as well as a box camera, if I go for a boxy, that is.
@Roger Hicks, I'm not actually sure what I want to do with it really, apart from take some 'snaps'. On the other hand, I think the challlenge of trying to get some decent pics out of one would be interesting. I have just been considering a lubitel, but many of the pics I've seen seem to have some vignetting and I think a camera made as 'late' as a 166U or 166B shouldn't really have that as a 'feature'.
@mconnealy, Thanks for the suggestion of the agfa 'clack' (named after the sound of the shutter?) and the other one, but I'm not really looking for anything of that sort of shape. I suppose that they aren't different enough from fed 2's and ricoh 500gx's etc. which I've already got.
@p. giannikis, An agfa? Possibly. Thanks.
@citizen99, Thanks for the link. There are some good pics on that site.
@Mr. Flibble, That pic is certainly better than Holgas seem able to produce. At that size, yuo wouldn't know it had come from such an old camera.
@Muggins, I take it you think that you're a bit of a talentless bozo as well eh? Perhaps we ought to form a club?
@O2pilot, I've just done a quick google on your ilford Craftsman. Apparently it's got 2 cemented components in the lens, and the other features are as you said. It was apparently issued to police forces at crime scene investigations! Well, according to http://www.photomemorabilia.co.uk/Ilford/Craftsman.html
That pic you posted does actually look quite good, considering the camera and it's age.
@tunalegs, I have seen a couple of descriptions which say the lens is a doublet or has 2 cemented elements, and I've seen some which show that there a 2 or 3 apertures and even some with a couple of different speeds and even with adjustable focusing (although on at least one camera this means moving the lens in camera). So I'm sure with a bit of hunting I'll be able to find a couple that I'd consider. I really just looking for one on which I can use a speed quicker than "too ruddy slow" such as 1/25th-1/30th, which I've just found out box tengors have.
I have been considering TLR's as well, but I'd be getting one as well as a box camera, if I go for a boxy, that is.
@Roger Hicks, I'm not actually sure what I want to do with it really, apart from take some 'snaps'. On the other hand, I think the challlenge of trying to get some decent pics out of one would be interesting. I have just been considering a lubitel, but many of the pics I've seen seem to have some vignetting and I think a camera made as 'late' as a 166U or 166B shouldn't really have that as a 'feature'.
@mconnealy, Thanks for the suggestion of the agfa 'clack' (named after the sound of the shutter?) and the other one, but I'm not really looking for anything of that sort of shape. I suppose that they aren't different enough from fed 2's and ricoh 500gx's etc. which I've already got.
@p. giannikis, An agfa? Possibly. Thanks.
@citizen99, Thanks for the link. There are some good pics on that site.
@Mr. Flibble, That pic is certainly better than Holgas seem able to produce. At that size, yuo wouldn't know it had come from such an old camera.
@Muggins, I take it you think that you're a bit of a talentless bozo as well eh? Perhaps we ought to form a club?
lynnb
Veteran
Another vote for the humble Kodak No.2 Model F. Nice results for a meniscus lens. The apertures are 16, 22 and 32 from what I could research.
This is a full width crop
Kodak Brownie No2 Model F_047 by lynnb's snaps, on Flickr
This is a full width crop
Kodak Brownie No2 Model F_047 by lynnb's snaps, on Flickr
seany65
Well-known
Thanks for the link lynnb. Some good pics there on the first page.
Anyway, from the pic you've just posted here, I'm sorry, but you can't join the "Talentless Bozo's" club.
Anyway, from the pic you've just posted here, I'm sorry, but you can't join the "Talentless Bozo's" club.
burninfilm
Well-known
The Zeiss Tengors and Baldurs (a simpler Tengor) can be nice box cameras if you accept the inherent limitations of the lens. The few I've had over the years were a bit soft overall, as compared to other manufacturer's box cameras that are somewhat sharp in the middle but very soft in the corners.
Personally, I'd recommend just picking up whatever crosses your patch. Most of the fun with box cameras is trying them out just to see what they can do. I have been impressed with many different Kodak box cameras, even the bottom-of-the-line Kodak No.2 Hawkeye. However, Voigtlander made several models of their Brillant line that have adjustable shutter speeds, focus, nicer lenses, etc.
I made these images several years back with a nasty old 1930's Box Tengor. It was rusty, had peeled back covering, exposed brass on the winding knob, etc., but the lens was clean and all of the mechanics worked properly.
This one is from the Zeiss Baldur:
Personally, I'd recommend just picking up whatever crosses your patch. Most of the fun with box cameras is trying them out just to see what they can do. I have been impressed with many different Kodak box cameras, even the bottom-of-the-line Kodak No.2 Hawkeye. However, Voigtlander made several models of their Brillant line that have adjustable shutter speeds, focus, nicer lenses, etc.
I made these images several years back with a nasty old 1930's Box Tengor. It was rusty, had peeled back covering, exposed brass on the winding knob, etc., but the lens was clean and all of the mechanics worked properly.
This one is from the Zeiss Baldur:
lynnb
Veteran
I'll start a new club for "Aspiring to be Talentless and Generally Clueless Bozos" then. So there.
Greyscale
Veteran
tunalegs
Pretended Artist
I forgot about the Agfa Ansco Shur-Shot Special, which uses a swing-in diopter lens to achieve two focus zones. I remember the results being quite good.
BTW, the shutter speed has never been a big bother for me when using boxes, the two biggest frustrations I've had are lack of control over the focus, and terrible viewfinders. A box with large brilliant finder is much more fun to use than something with minuscule, dim, ground glass finders. Anything that has two or three focus zones is far more fun than something with fixed focus too.
Some box cameras can use push-in or push-on filters and "portrait lenses", if you find the right sizes. But these are often much rarer than the cameras. This is less convenient than having a camera with zone focusing, but still expands the usability of an old box greatly.
BTW, the shutter speed has never been a big bother for me when using boxes, the two biggest frustrations I've had are lack of control over the focus, and terrible viewfinders. A box with large brilliant finder is much more fun to use than something with minuscule, dim, ground glass finders. Anything that has two or three focus zones is far more fun than something with fixed focus too.
Some box cameras can use push-in or push-on filters and "portrait lenses", if you find the right sizes. But these are often much rarer than the cameras. This is less convenient than having a camera with zone focusing, but still expands the usability of an old box greatly.
darya151
Established
I have a few that qualify as box cameras, though only one that fits your description - the Ilford Craftsman. Not sure about the lens, but I'm guessing it's a meniscus rather than a doublet. 6x6, two speeds (1/25 and 1/75, plus bulb) and two apertures (f/9 and f/18), plus infinitely variable focusing from 4 feet to infinity. Nice bright focusing glass with a pop-up hood. Bakelite body. Definitely on the high end of box cameras. The lens has an interesting character to it, especially at f/9. A sample:
My others are much simpler. The usual single speed, single aperture, fixed focus type things. They can be a lot of fun to use, and the results are often better than expected. I reversed the lens on my Brownie Hawkeye because the photos with it in the proper orientation were too good for what I wanted from a cheap box camera.
What a beautiful image!
p.giannakis
Pan Giannakis
02Pilot
Malcontent
Thank you, Darya.