Box Tengor

[KoNickon]

I know; it's not a folder. But I didn't see a more proper category for this thread.

I recently was given what I think is the first version of the ZI Box Tengor 54/2 (6x9); based on its appearance I think it dates from 1926-28. Vertically aligned viewfinder windows, one focus zone, no fancy hexagonal embossing on the front. It has three aperture settings, and that's my question -- can someone tell me what these are? I'm guessing f11, f16, f22 but would like some confirmation. Thanks! Looking forward to trying this out, since this would be my oldest camera by about 10 years.

 

[rhl-oregon]

Lots of info on these by googling "Box Tengor" or just "Tengor." Butkus has a manual, Mike Elek has a page, there's YouTube stuff. Also a lot of mentions on RFF; use the Search bar. I recall SteveM posting some beautiful shots from a BT on RFF. The apertures vary, 9/11/16, 11/22, etc., the speeds are few, operation simple, have fun.

 

[KoNickon]

Thanks. Yes, I've seen Mike's page, and the Butkus manual, neither of which deals with this specific model. Have looked high and low elsewhere on the 'net too, including photo.net. Will keep looking; I may not have searched here yet!

 

[rhl-oregon]

If there are 3 apertures, I'd guess 8 or 9 / 11 / 16. Why not shoot it beside something you trust at those same exposures/speeds, then a set where you expose for 11/ 16 / 22, and compare rolls? Good luck.

 

[Muggins]

Just to throw a spanner into the works, a Kodak of the same period would have had three Waterhouse stops which approximate to f10, 20, 30 - I've measured them. IIRC it's the distance from the aperture to the film plane divided by the diameter of the aperture. As it's a ratio, units aren't important so long as you measure both in the same.

Any help?

Adrian

 

[KoNickon]

Hmm -- I had thought it was the focal length (which isn't the same thing as the aperture--film plane distance) divided by the aperture width. But I'll try your suggestion and see what it yields. Hard to know exactly where the film plane is when it's all closed back up, however.

Just to throw a spanner into the works, a Kodak of the same period would have had three Waterhouse stops which approximate to f10, 20, 30 - I've measured them. IIRC it's the distance from the aperture to the film plane divided by the diameter of the aperture. As it's a ratio, units aren't important so long as you measure both in the same.

Any help?

Adrian

 

[ZeissFan]

You sound like you have a very early Zeiss Ikon Box Tengor. The Box Tengor was one of the carryover cameras from Goerz and is unique in that it survived into the postwar period and with one exception used the same Goerz Frontar lens.

I have a model very similar to yours. The viewing windows are frosted, rather than being brilliant finders. And the shutter release trips the shutter when you move it down and then back up again.

Most of my cameras are in storage at the moment. From photos that I've seen of Goerz Box Tengors, I think this model probably is immediate post-merger.

Most Box Tengors have three aperture settings of f/9-11-16.

For what it's worth, I've always felt that the best shooter is the postwar model with the satin chrome trim.

 

[KoNickon]

Mike, yes, you described mine accurately. I think it's basically the Goerz model, with ZI markings. Frosted viewing windows, a shutter lever that trips the shutter when you move it either direction.

I measured as best I could the aperture widths and the distance from the shutter to the film plane; looks like the apertures are f15 (call it f16); f22; and f30 (call it f32). So with one focusing zone, small apertures would be called for, particularly with a not too slow "instantaneous" shutter speed of about 1/50, by my estimation.

I agree with you that the satin chrome postwar Tengor is the one to get -- and a handsome critter to boot.

You sound like you have a very early Zeiss Ikon Box Tengor. The Box Tengor was one of the carryover cameras from Goerz and is unique in that it survived into the postwar period and with one exception used the same Goerz Frontar lens.

I have a model very similar to yours. The viewing windows are frosted, rather than being brilliant finders. And the shutter release trips the shutter when you move it down and then back up again.

Most of my cameras are in storage at the moment. From photos that I've seen of Goerz Box Tengors, I think this model probably is immediate post-merger.

Most Box Tengors have three aperture settings of f/9-11-16.

For what it's worth, I've always felt that the best shooter is the postwar model with the satin chrome trim.

 

[b.kaspersma]

Well I own two 20s Box Tengors: one has two additional lenses for portraits and group photos, the other only has the extra aperture holes.

I own an original 1920s manual in Dutch, which I sent to Mike Butkus. You can view it here:
http://www.cameramanuals.org/zeiss_ikon/zeiss_ikon_box_tengor_dutch.pdf

As you can see, the apertures are f18 and f25