Brian Sweeney is back at RFF.

Hey, Brian! Great to have you back and looking forward to you sharing your knowledge of lenses, including Sonnars and Sonnar variants. I am curious about one lens that I picked up about three years ago: a 1943 Jena Sonnar 50/1.5, serial no. 2724622. It has the red T indicating coating. I purchased the lens from another member here, who told me it had been in the collection of LeicaTom. The seller also reported that, after he acquired it, he had sent the lens to DAG for an overhaul. The lens is in great shape now, but I wonder this: did you ever work on this lens?

Here’s a sample photo from this 1943 Sonnar:


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Tom had several Sonnars, I worked on this one for him. I also have one from this same batch. They are the sharpest of the CZJ 5cm F1.5 Sonnars. The optical formula was recomputed ~1939, and a new glass used. A new alloy was used for the barrel. The lens has hidden set screws holding the Name Ring and Rear Triplet. Be very careful when disassembling.

Jupiter-3: I have two 1950 J-3's with perfect glass that are really wartime Sonnars. One is from this batch.
 

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Hi Brian. Does this mean that my CZJ 50 1.5 from the early 1930's is also one of the sharper lenses based on your experience with such lenses? It is actually a very sharp lens.
 
If not Brian I would be one of those who tells about Jupiters as soft lenses.

That makes me feel great.

L1000047 by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

Jupiter-3 was the first lens used on my M Monochrom.

I've shot with J-3's ranging from the 1949 ZK through to the Jupiter-3+.

Jupiters by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

My J-3+ : might be the first one bought in the US.

Secret Garden, Occoquan by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

After buying it, the company asked what my opinion of it was-

https://www.lomography.com/magazine...-of-the-new-jupiter-3-plus-with-brian-sweeney
 
I toyed with the idea of ordering a J-3+ for a while, but I then did not get one. I have too many 50mm lenses.
 
Hi Brian. Does this mean that my CZJ 50 1.5 from the early 1930's is also one of the sharper lenses based on your experience with such lenses? It is actually a very sharp lens.

That particular lens is very sharp.
BUT- the Wartime lenses, from about 1939 through to 1945: they are sharper and better corrected for field curvature. The type of glass is different. Chris at Skyllaney noted the same in his experience of shooting Sonnars. The wartime lenses- just sharper.

I took the Nikkor-SC 5cm F1.5 and my 1943 CZJ 5cm F1.5 Sonnar for an outing, did this article:

https://cameraderie.org/threads/nik...ns-that-got-the-attention-of-the-world.39019/

I plan on updating the images and rewriting it here.

I've collected a lot of Sonnar formula lenses since 2011, took a lot of them apart. The Wartime Sonnars- standouts. The new C-Sonnar is slightly sharper- but not by much.
 
It cost around $650 these days.
Does it focus to 0.7m on the M10?


==> Availability: Out of stock

It will focus to 0.7m on the M10, has a cutout for the lens threads similar to the ones I cut for my modified Jupiters.
 
welcome back Brian. Still have the lenses from you. Love them both. I too probably have too many sonnars...
 
Thankyou all-

Sonnars have certainly experienced a real following in the last 15 years.
I'll be getting one of the first Bertele Sonnars from Skyllaney, and have a 1934 5cm F2 waiting to compare it with.

I'll be putting some threads up about various Sonnars over the Winter months. Including the 7Artisans 50/1.1, and others.

Too many Sonnars. More than 50?
 
Thankyou all-

Sonnars have certainly experienced a real following in the last 15 years.
I'll be getting one of the first Bertele Sonnars from Skyllaney, and have a 1934 5cm F2 waiting to compare it with.

I'll be putting some threads up about various Sonnars over the Winter months. Including the 7Artisans 50/1.1, and others.

Too many Sonnars. More than 50?

I wonder who the "Lucky 20" are, the ones who will try out such an interesting lens.

I wish I could try one out.
 
I am anxiously waiting for the Bertele Sonnar.
I'll be bringing it down for the next trip to the Beach...

Mentioning rare Sonnars- I recently picked up an unusual CZJ 5cm F2 Rigid Sonnar, has an adapter in it to fit into the 5cm F1.5 mount. I've seen and worked on one other a few years ago.

RetainingScrewOut_of_Mount, UNSCREW by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

This is different from the original Rigid 5cm F2 Sonnars of 1932. It has the same barrel as the collapsible lens, but has a extra piece to fit into the 5cm F1.5 Contax mount.

Optics_Out by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr
 
This is a very interesting looking lens, Brian. I need to do my own lens searches again as I used to do years ago.

As for my J8 lenses, I found these 5 lenses:

J8-lenses-X2.jpg



Do you know their "history"?

1. black Jupiter-8 Made in USSR number is written on the side 0249104, LTM

2. Russian letters used for J8 number 5523235 LTM

3. Russian letters for J8 number 5216600 LTM

4. Contax mount number 5619649 Russian letters for J8

5. Contax mount Russian letters for J8M Number 7149817
 
I own a Zeiss 5cm 2.0 that someone converted to ltm by using an Elmar housing, I think. The number places it as one of 200 lenses that Germany traded with Sweden or Norway in return for iron ore! I had a write-up about it. It is a very nice lens. Marc Small sent me this information on the lens.
 
The 1952 J-8: probably Schott Glass. I have two J-8s from 1952, slightly different. The earliest one- I believe it has German Elements in it. The later one, German glass.
 
The 1952 J-8: probably Schott Glass. I have two J-8s from 1952, slightly different. The earliest one- I believe it has German Elements in it. The later one, German glass.

What is the difference between German elements and German glass? Is this what you meant to type?
 
Chris (at Skyllaney Opto-Mechanics) emailed me some interesting information on their soon to be completed Bertele lens. He told me that I could post information from his email to RFF.


“The Bertele lens, is basically a remade pre-war f/2 Sonnar. Optically, the formula is extremely similar, down to the radi of curvature and glass dispersion types. What differs optically, is the slight outer diameter of the elements, to fit inside more modern means of mechanics. The original Zeiss Jena f/2 Sonnar lenses used to have their elements cemented into brass housings. These brass housings were then installed into the brass sub optical block.

Our method, is more like the ZK and Jupiter 8 lenses from the early 1950’s, which used Zeiss Jena glass confiscated by the Soviets, without the brass cemented housings. This is where the elements are not cemented into sub housings, but install directly into the sub optical block with retention rings. By doing it this way, I can adjust each lens to an effective focal length of 51.6mm much easier then the pre-war Jena retention method.

If you haven't by now guessed why we went down this design route, the term ‘51.6’ is key. I’ve implemented Brian’s method of adjusting the Sonnar lenses effective focal length, into the design from the get go. It is the only way to get the Sonnars to work correctly to focus down to 0.7m on Leica RF, since all optics have a tolerance zone they fall into, and I need a method to ensure a true effective focal length of 51.6mm is achieved each time. This is the genius of Brian Sweeney at play, in a lens built from the ground up, to abide by his white paper on how to modify their effective focal lengths. The same is true for all lenses really, modification of the distances between front and rear sets, is how true effective focal lengths are arrived at, which is often also noted right of the infinity symbol on most Leica lenses.

The aperture design, is also a direct copy of the pre-war Jena design. Both the aperture parts, and elements themselves on the Bertele, can actually be installed and mixed with the original Jena Sonnar elements with some element adapters I have, with no issue. Ive built up a few hybrids so far to my amusement.

This is where the similarities between the 1930’s Sonnar and our Bertele lens end. The glass used inside the Bertele, is modern glass made here in Europe, that contains no air bubbles obviously, and is not the soft type like the original was. It also has modern multi-coatings. The coatings are very similar to a famous manufacturers 1980’s and 1990’s lens range which I can’t mention. Needless to say, they have deep purple and blue hues, common to its post war ancestor... but also have orange, green and other wavelength specific hues in the coating mix, common to a more evolved form of its post-war ancestor.

The glass type, coatings and contrast, is the biggest optical difference, between the Bertle and the original Jena elements. In general, the Bertele elements are roughly on par optically, with the 1930’s and 40’s Jena Sonnar lenses, minus the coatings and the usual scratches and other issues one finds on copies that are 70+ years old. They render a more punchier and contrasty image then the original Jena lenses, entirely due to more modern coatings. In my experience with restoring and converting pre and post war era Sonnars, it is becoming harder and harder to obtain decent copies. The remaining decent copies, are becoming more and more pricier also.

The front of the lens is E39 filter thread, and has a notch for attaching a Wetzlar style hood (i.e. pinch on type made for E39 lenses). We have done away with the 40.5mm thread, to ensure a synergy of front filter usages for Leica RF users.

The body is nearly all brass. It feels better in hand when using. To counter the additional weight, the sub optical block is becoming more aluminium. Thus, with reduced sub optical block weight, the lens is easier to focus. We did have a prototype that was all brass, and it weighed over 330 grams. So the brass exterior, partial aluminium sub block housing, seems like the best compromise.

There is a plan to offer chrome plated versions, and various other colour cerakote options. The non-chrome painted versions, will use cerakote finish, since we can’t use anodising anymore since doing away with aluminium on the body. I’ve partnered with Aaron from camerakote, to provide the custom finishes for the Bertele, so something as wild as Caribbean blue, or themed colour combo’s are entirely possible (a sample photo of some pre-war Sonnars they have painted for us).

The optics, sub optical block, aperture system, are all done being manufactured.
The body is what is being finalised.
It is the body, where things will be different then any previous Sonnar. It is native M mount, has a recess for user added code (but will not be sold coded, to not violate any patents), focuses down to 0.7m, finger tab on the focus ring, and implements some new designs such as an anti-backlash system. It is most similar to the V4 cron body in its function and appearance. It is also made here entirely here in England, which is a double edged sword (more about this below).

Similar to the 8 element replica from light lens lab (which I have a copy of BTW, and love), we plan on offering customer engraving on the front ring also. The 8 element replica project, has been an inspiration for the Bertele project also, I must admit.

We have been meaning to provide an update in Q1 2021 about the Bertele project. The main hurdle I’ve had to contend with is Covid-19 this year, which hit right as we announced the Bertele lens. The United Kingdom has been one of the hardest hit countries with this, and we are in a second lock down now. Since our consumer camera lens manufacturing industry in the UK is basically gone (we have Cooke, but they make PL cinema lenses.. it has been a long time since Taylor Hobson actually made rangefinder lenses!); I have been trying to execute the desire and will of many British photographers, to have the Bertele lens made entirely here in the United Kingdom.

This has not easy when many local machine shops that make parts for us, are closed for months due to lockdowns. The ones that are open, have placed parts on long lead times, because automotive and aerospace companies simply have more money to throw at them to get their parts done at a priority turn around time. Covid-19 was the ‘monkey wrench’ in our Bertele manufacturing plan, and as such, there is no way for it to be ready by Christmas 2020. Im confident by mid 2021, some of them will finally be ready.

Im attaching a few images of the Bertele designs. There is a vide of the reverse engineered Jena aperture control system here also: https://youtu.be/JwcNEQxSbbk

The project is more a labor of love then anything else. Many people who are involved with it on our end, simply love Sonnars. We want a vintage formula sonnar, with modern coatings, in a native m mount body, that is high quality and focuses down to 0.7m. Believe it or not, there isn't a Sonnar that exists like this, else we would all buy one and there would be no Bertele project...

Growing tired of using adapters, or installing Sonnars into other donor bodies for usage on Leica... we decided to simply just make our own to satisfy our own curiosity and love for them. If we can make a small batch of them, so others that want a simliar vintage sonnar in modern M mount body can benefit from our passion project, I’m more then happy.

These old formula lenses will never compete against modern ASPH APO offerings, they aren't supposed to. They make images that have a non-sterile, artistic value, that more and more people lately, seem to be desiring.

Over the next several years, our intention is to bring back ‘many’ of the Zeiss pre and war era formulas, into remade rangefinder lenses for Leica RF. There is another famous vintage Zeiss formula, already in the works, that is made to complement the Bertele as a ‘two lens RF solution’, but more about this one sometime next year.”



Chris
Skyllaney Opto-Mechanics
Warwickshire, England
 
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