ZorkiKat
ЗоркийК&
Lee, can you remember the shutter speed setting which gave you a COMPLETE frame? How about those which gave partial exposures?
Sounds that what you have is a shutter which partially caps at some speeds and totally caps at others. This results from improper tensioning or loss of lubrication. The former is the usual culprit. This happens when the first curtain -the blind which moves first when you press the release button- moves slower than it should, and the second curtain would catch up and close the gap before the exposure is even completed, or even initiated. This explains why you have partial or totally blank frames.
If you get a half-frame exposure, it means that the first shutter blind is only fast enough to travel halfway before the second (closing blind) catches up and closes the gap, allowing no exposure to take place on the rest of the frame. At faster shutter speeds like 1/200 or 1/500, the gap is effectively closed before the shutter can even start its traverse.
The usual cure for the usual suspect is adjusting the tension. This can easily be done if you have some skill in tinkering with small precision machines. Tensioning is tested at 1/30 (1/25?) or 1/60 (1/50?), and then 1/500. If the shutter opens, ie, the slit remains open at a consistent size during its traverse at these speeds, the tensioning will be correct.
To explain further, please see here:
http://jay.fedka.com/index_files/Page389.htm
http://jay.fedka.com/index_files/Page510.htm
As you can see, the shutter can only be fully observed (and adjusted) after some disassembly. A bottom loading camera like the Zorki 2S will not allow proper assessment of its shutter activity without being taken apart.
Sounds that what you have is a shutter which partially caps at some speeds and totally caps at others. This results from improper tensioning or loss of lubrication. The former is the usual culprit. This happens when the first curtain -the blind which moves first when you press the release button- moves slower than it should, and the second curtain would catch up and close the gap before the exposure is even completed, or even initiated. This explains why you have partial or totally blank frames.
If you get a half-frame exposure, it means that the first shutter blind is only fast enough to travel halfway before the second (closing blind) catches up and closes the gap, allowing no exposure to take place on the rest of the frame. At faster shutter speeds like 1/200 or 1/500, the gap is effectively closed before the shutter can even start its traverse.
The usual cure for the usual suspect is adjusting the tension. This can easily be done if you have some skill in tinkering with small precision machines. Tensioning is tested at 1/30 (1/25?) or 1/60 (1/50?), and then 1/500. If the shutter opens, ie, the slit remains open at a consistent size during its traverse at these speeds, the tensioning will be correct.
To explain further, please see here:
http://jay.fedka.com/index_files/Page389.htm
http://jay.fedka.com/index_files/Page510.htm
As you can see, the shutter can only be fully observed (and adjusted) after some disassembly. A bottom loading camera like the Zorki 2S will not allow proper assessment of its shutter activity without being taken apart.
mh2000
Well-known
are you certain that you took the lens cap off for all these shot?
I will admit that many of my first RF shots had many blanks... coming from SLRs, it took a while to remember about the lens cap... you don't see if in the VF.
I will admit that many of my first RF shots had many blanks... coming from SLRs, it took a while to remember about the lens cap... you don't see if in the VF.
mh2000
Well-known
PS With SP-2 Super, use Sunny-16, but err on the side of over-exposing... you'll do fine... often better than using a built in TTL meter.
gb hill
Veteran
I have a Zorki 2c. It's a fine camera, but bottom loading is a pain sometimes. Are you trimming the film leader before you load the film. I know this ahouldn't have anything to do with the problem you are having, but you need to do it if not. You can see the travel of the curtains easily by unscrewing the lens which you have done. The speed the most likely to show trouble is 50. (60 on Fed's). The 2c has speeds of B, 25, 50, 100, 250,& 500. Clear negs mean the film was not exposed at all. I had a Fed 2 that was sticking. It was a simple fix by adjusting the tension of the curtains. There is a sticky with photos on the top of FSU camera page. Good luck with the fix.
mynameislee2
Member
Hi All,
Many thanks for all the questions and suggestions. First off, I don't have a lense cap so that's that worry out of the way
This camera has the shutter speed 30 marked on the shutter speed selector not 25. The shots which did materialize were spread across the negative so it wasn't at the beginning or the end.
The shots I took were mostly at 500 with a few at 250 but I really can't remember which was which. That's what you get for previously relying on a digital camera to put all the shot information into the image file
I'll be attempting a CLA on this camera over my christmas break and I'll let you know how I get on.
Ps. I'll upload the only image which came out as it's obviously a fighter
Regards,
Lee
Many thanks for all the questions and suggestions. First off, I don't have a lense cap so that's that worry out of the way
This camera has the shutter speed 30 marked on the shutter speed selector not 25. The shots which did materialize were spread across the negative so it wasn't at the beginning or the end.
The shots I took were mostly at 500 with a few at 250 but I really can't remember which was which. That's what you get for previously relying on a digital camera to put all the shot information into the image file
I'll be attempting a CLA on this camera over my christmas break and I'll let you know how I get on.
Ps. I'll upload the only image which came out as it's obviously a fighter
Regards,
Lee
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
Hi,
if the majority were at 500 it sounds like it's a case of shutter capping. That can be remedied using Jay's excellent instructions.
I wouldn't attempt a full CLA, try to get the shutter going first
if the majority were at 500 it sounds like it's a case of shutter capping. That can be remedied using Jay's excellent instructions.
I wouldn't attempt a full CLA, try to get the shutter going first
mynameislee2
Member
Ok, I'll have a look at the curtain fix first. I've attached [for giggles] one of the photo's that appeared. After looking at them all I now realise that the bottom of all the frames are very dark so this would lend to your suggestion about the curtain problem.
And yes, that's my lovely fingerprint in the sky
And yes, that's my lovely fingerprint in the sky
Attachments
ZorkiKat
ЗоркийК&
The photo indicates shutter capping than anything else. The picture below was made by a shutter which capped:
Heed Philip's warning not to do a full CLA. Doing more than what can be easily done now may lead to more trouble. Tensioning, some squirting with naphtha/lighterfluid and fine oil is enough to make the shutter work right. Full CLA will require serious stripping and disassembly.
Removing the shutter crate from the body shell will suffice to enable you to see how the shutter caps, as well as checking the shutter blinds as they traverse.
You can do this simple test to see if the shutter blinds fully open. Place a piece of black card over the film gate and leave a 1...2mm gap starting from the edge of the film gate. Hold the shutter chassis before a bright light source (such as a table lamp) and fire the shutter. You should see a sliver of light in this gap if the shutter opens. Do this on both edges.
The other side (edge on the side of the shutter rollers/film cassette chamber) is more critical. A capping shutter is revealed when no sliver of light is seen through the gap when the shutter is fired.
With this repair effort, take care to remember the position of the shims under the lens mount. When you remove the lens mount, be careful not to remove the paper shims without noting their positions first. Take a digital picture of the shims' position on the chassis. The shims are responsible for ensuring that the lens is held at the exact position relative to the film for precise focus. The placement is critical down to 0.02mm.
Heed Philip's warning not to do a full CLA. Doing more than what can be easily done now may lead to more trouble. Tensioning, some squirting with naphtha/lighterfluid and fine oil is enough to make the shutter work right. Full CLA will require serious stripping and disassembly.
Removing the shutter crate from the body shell will suffice to enable you to see how the shutter caps, as well as checking the shutter blinds as they traverse.
You can do this simple test to see if the shutter blinds fully open. Place a piece of black card over the film gate and leave a 1...2mm gap starting from the edge of the film gate. Hold the shutter chassis before a bright light source (such as a table lamp) and fire the shutter. You should see a sliver of light in this gap if the shutter opens. Do this on both edges.
The other side (edge on the side of the shutter rollers/film cassette chamber) is more critical. A capping shutter is revealed when no sliver of light is seen through the gap when the shutter is fired.
With this repair effort, take care to remember the position of the shims under the lens mount. When you remove the lens mount, be careful not to remove the paper shims without noting their positions first. Take a digital picture of the shims' position on the chassis. The shims are responsible for ensuring that the lens is held at the exact position relative to the film for precise focus. The placement is critical down to 0.02mm.
januaryman
"Flim? You want flim?"
Oops. I was basing it on my experiences with the Fed 2s that I have. Lesson learned - If I don't know for certain I will shut the hell up! Sorry!
ZorkiKat
ЗоркийК&
Same with FED-2. The shutter won't break if the speeds are changed prior to cocking. The worst that can happen is that the speed won't be set properly with some of the older single-dial variants On the later variants with
2 concentric dials, the speeds can actually -the design allows it- be changed regardless of the state of the shutter. What can damage them though is jumping from 500 to B or vice versa, at least on some variants where this gap has some form of lock in between.
evergreen2253
evergreen2253
Zorki 4
Zorki 4
I'm about to get a Zorki 4 on ebay and await the outcome - I paid no more than £20 with postage and suspect I may have to get it serviced, because I had one years ago. It would never synch properly on flash and frames overlapped, but now and again it would surprise you with a lovely image.
I collect cameras all relatively cheaply & have some good images on Flickr where I am evergreen2005. The Voigtlander & Werra cameras yield good images. This forum will be helpful - because 40 to 50 year old mechanical cameras will cause problems - it helps to have some information.
Zorki 4
I'm about to get a Zorki 4 on ebay and await the outcome - I paid no more than £20 with postage and suspect I may have to get it serviced, because I had one years ago. It would never synch properly on flash and frames overlapped, but now and again it would surprise you with a lovely image.
I collect cameras all relatively cheaply & have some good images on Flickr where I am evergreen2005. The Voigtlander & Werra cameras yield good images. This forum will be helpful - because 40 to 50 year old mechanical cameras will cause problems - it helps to have some information.
estenh
Member
Zorkis are relatively easy to fix. With only a little bit of experience I was able to repair a capping Zorki by adding a little bit of lubricant and making sure the shutter tension was where it should be. Plus, they're relatively cheap, so I didn't feel too worried while working on it.
Probably wouldn't do the same kind of repair with my Leica.
Probably wouldn't do the same kind of repair with my Leica.
mynameislee2
Member
Flush Clean?
Flush Clean?
Ok, I've been looking at the instructions on adjusting the curtain tensions and finally found a CRT TV I could use. When testing some of the time the curtain 'lines' look ok as described, othertimes they are all over the place. I've also got complete capping on 1/500.
I'm assuming this means that there is a lubrication problem and have ordered some watch oil. On the instructions it says 'flush clean with lighter fluid', does this just mean use lighter fluid and a brush or is there a particular way of 'flushing'?
Regards,
Lee
Flush Clean?
Ok, I've been looking at the instructions on adjusting the curtain tensions and finally found a CRT TV I could use. When testing some of the time the curtain 'lines' look ok as described, othertimes they are all over the place. I've also got complete capping on 1/500.
I'm assuming this means that there is a lubrication problem and have ordered some watch oil. On the instructions it says 'flush clean with lighter fluid', does this just mean use lighter fluid and a brush or is there a particular way of 'flushing'?
Regards,
Lee
Last edited:
estenh
Member
I just sprayed in a little bit of Ronsonol. That stuff is amazing. Definitely saved a broken Nikkormat I had.