bromide drag

[paapoopa]

i have been getting bromide drag for the last few rolls of film that i developed.
I am not sure what did I do wrong as I am developing it as what I have always been doing which doesn't give me issues before.

this is tmax400 shot at 1600,
tmax developer 1+4 , 8.30mins at 20C
first min continuous agitation and subsequent 3 agitation every min.

anyone has any advice on resolving this? its getting really frustrating especially when I got this in a roll with important shots.
and adding to the problem, i notice that only about 1/4 of the roll has gotten bromide drag.

 

[mdarnton]

I don't think that's bromide drag--those are surge marks from developer surging through the sprocket holes.
Are you just flipping your tank? You should be spinning it as well. In fact, I try to spin more than flip.

 

[Dwig]

I don't think that's bromide drag--those are surge marks from developer surging through the sprocket holes.
Are you just flipping your tank? You should be spinning it as well. In fact, I try to spin more than flip.

I agree.

It looks very much like surge marks caused by turbulence extending from the sprocket holes. Extended and excessively violent agitation is the usual cause.

There is one other cause, but it is unlikely. Mechanical stress to the emulsion will produce the same chemical change that light exposure does. If the film is reverse wound, you will get similar marks though these are generally mirrored on both sides of the film. These tend to be darker at the edges of the sprocket holes and slightly lighter extending down from the middle of the hole with no such "exposure" between the sprockets.

 

[paapoopa]

thanks for the help,

i always though bromide dragwas sort of like surge marks from the sprocket holes? and the way to resolve this is pre soak the films and giving it more agitation?

it sounds like i should be giving it a even more gentle agitation?
what i am currently doing is a slow inversion with a very slight rotate as i invert the tank.

 

[Larry H-L]

Are you using two reels in a two-reel tank?

Surge marks could be caused by one loose reel in a multiple-reel tank, or by not filling the tank with enough liquid.

Either / both could cause the developer to quickly rush by the sprocket holes causing uneven development.

Bromide drag, in my experience, looks more like blotches where silver redeposits on the emulsion, often most visible in blank areas such as skies.

 

[paapoopa]

Are you using two reels in a two-reel tank?

Surge marks could be caused by one loose reel in a multiple-reel tank, or by not filling the tank with enough liquid.

Either / both could cause the developer to quickly rush by the sprocket holes causing uneven development.

Bromide drag, in my experience, looks more like blotches where silver redeposits on the emulsion, often most visible in blank areas such as skies.

nope, i am using one reel in a 2 reel tank,
i am always paranoid in processing more than 1 roll a time, afraid that i will make mistake.

but in this case, i have been doing it the usual way I have always been doing but the result turns out like the above 🙁

 

[Larry H-L]

Try two reels in the tank, one can be empty, put the empty reel on top.

Fill the tank to about 90% with liquids.

Run a test on an unimportant roll.

Rinse the reels really well prior to starting, PhotoFlo, soap, etc., sometimes can cause issues.

A water pre-soak may help.

Good luck.

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

I think the other people who have replied are correct, and that Larry has probably nailed it. If you must develop a single roll in a two reel tank, try placing an empty roll on top of the loaded one as a spacer, and be generous with the fluid quantity. Better yet, put two loaded reels into the tank and conserve your developer. Otherwise, a smaller tank may be worth considering for those occasions you only wish to process a single roll.

 

[Ronald M]

Pouring in developer through the top with SS tanks causes developer to run over the outer wraps. You will get marks.
Cure is to drop loaded reel into full tank using a lift rod for multi reel tank. Every pro I know does it this way.

I have used one loaded reel , one empty on top, in a two reel tank with 8 oz of developer for decades. Agitation is by inversion. Never got a single mark of any kind.

This is the same lift, drain, dunk used with sheet film. That works fine also as long as you keep the speed up, not down, which will make marks from developer moving slowly through the holes in the bottom of the holder.

Agitation must be complete across the whole film or there will be marks where it is insufficient.

All the schemes people invent will sooner or later get you into trouble. It might take 100 rolls, or ten, but the right combination of circumstances will happen.

Follow instructions.

 

[Larry H-L]

Ronald makes a good point, drop the loaded reels in the developer, don't pour it through the cap.

Just remember to kill the lights!

I actually use two tanks, pre-soak in one, then turn off the lights, pull out the reels, and drop the reels in the second tank filled with developer.

 

[bence8810]

I had these marks when developing one reel in a two reel tank too like above suggested. When inverting the reel slides up and won't slide back down and the developer slowly flows down the film towards the bottom of the tank.

Put one reel at the top empty to keep the 2nd reel down.

Ben

 

[sevo]

Bromide drag requires bromide pollution in the developer. So it will usually hit you with well-used developer in replenishment set-ups, or these days more commonly as a local phenomenon when the film runs dry (due to insufficient volume or a slipped reel), with only the small amount of developer from the agitation trickling over the surface.

Bromide drag inhibits rather than promotes development, so I'd expect the pattern to be reversed, and it also ought to affect the area around/below the highlights more than the shadows. What is outside the image area you posted? Can you post a full area scan including the perforation?

 

[paapoopa]

thanks everyone, i will try developing with the empty reel on top.

 

[tho60]

I had the same experience with some old developer.

 

[paapoopa]

I had the same experience with some old developer.

that could be it as well,
i am using tmax developer that has been use for at least 2 rounds of developing. and been laying around for weeks.

 

[bence8810]

that could be it as well,
i am using tmax developer that has been use for at least 2 rounds of developing. and been laying around for weeks.

I re-use TMAX 1:4 for 12 rolls and keep it in this diluted condition for 2 months. I add 1 extra minute from roll 5 and another extra minute from roll 9 onwards when developing. Never had the problem you are showing due to the developer, only due to the reel getting stuck at the top of the tank with no liquid covering it.

Ben