rybolt
Well-known
We had a similar situation here in SW Ohio. The Ohio Institute of Photography opened in the mid 70's and had a great group of instructors and students. The curriculum was broad in offering Portrait and Wedding, Commercial, Lab and Medical classes. The instructors were all either pros or business people with a strong interest in photography. I did a lot of business with them and some of their graduates are still close friends. In the 90's the owners wanted to retire and sold to Kaplan (owned at the time by the Washington Post). They began recruiting any warm body that could qualify for government subsidies. The reputation of the school went down the drain and a few years ago they fired all of the photo staff and concentrated on medical technicians, nursing and law enforcement.
segedi
RFicianado
I was accepted to Brooks in 2004, but choose not to go. Already having a bachelors degree in graphic design, I thought they'd give me credit for parallel courses, especially in the humanities. They didn't. They wanted to have me take them all over again. I saw through their money grab and passed.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
There's a house for sale in the next village -- habitable, but basic -- for 28,000€ (I think -- it might be 25,000). At 100,000€ there's lots of choice, often with enough land to let you come close to self-sufficiency.
Then again, there are very few jobs in La France Profonde, and even fewer that pay well. See http://rogerandfrances.eu/la-france-profonde/la-france-profonde for more about living in "deep" France.
Cheers,
R.
farlymac
PF McFarland
When I got out of the service in '75, I thought long and hard about going to Brooks, but the cost of living there prevented me from doing so. I looked into other schools, but not having any savings for expenses still kept me from going. By the time I finally got a job that paid good money, I decided to stick with that for a guaranteed retirement income. Not that I didn't explore going pro on my own, even opening a studio at one time, but the job was somewhat demanding, and didn't allow me time to really get the studio up and running.
I had thought about working with the local photo studio back home, but didn't want to be tied down doing only weddings and portraits. Being in a small town meant not a lot of opportunities for much of anything else.
PF
I had thought about working with the local photo studio back home, but didn't want to be tied down doing only weddings and portraits. Being in a small town meant not a lot of opportunities for much of anything else.
PF
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Jane Bown was barely accepted to short photography course. Yousuf Karsh didn't have university diploma for photography. Winogrand and HCB were studying painting, Winogrand only attended photojournalism class.
I'm reading HCB "Dialogs" and in two interviews he has mentioned photography schools as useless.
I'm reading HCB "Dialogs" and in two interviews he has mentioned photography schools as useless.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
This is the normal reaction from older photographers, most of whom (like me) started out as self-taught amateurs and then worked as assistants/gofers for established photographers. That's why, when faced with a choice of a B.A. Fine Art in photography and law, I chose law. University wasn't as much fun as art school (several of my friends went to art schools) but it's been a damn' sight more useful since.
I have seen it asserted that younger photographers have to have "qualifications", but I find it hard to understand why except perhaps in non-photographic jobs (shop assistant, salesman...). My "gaffer" when I was an assistant in London in the 1970s always preferred self-taught assistants because he reckoned that photography schools destroyed any sense of urgency or budgeting.
Cheers,
R.
I always love it when people say going to school is a waste of time. Sure, it can be. But it can also be completely useful. It's what you make of it.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
You forgot to add "photography".
Personally, I'm not saying what going to school is waste of time, but agree on HCB take about "photography schools". From his and GW photography I could clearly see what attending art school, classes has greater impact on results in photography. HCB was recommending to take pictures as artist will do paintings.
BillBingham2
Registered User
+1
Besides getting a go grounding in your major College is an excellent place to explore different lines of study/work. At Iowa State University that is one of their selling points. They also allow one to work on a second Bachelors after you finish your first.
After I was working for ten years I didn't feel going back for my Bachelors had any value, but unfortunately it kept me from qualifying for many jobs. So I went and got my Masters, bit of work but worth it.
B2 (;->
BillBingham2
Registered User
The government regulations mostly had to do with promises made about jobs after graduation. These schools are not for everyone, but there are folks who do a lot better in them than in larger institutions.
It's a fine example of when the Feds need to step in as problems are not able to be fixed via the courts or capitalism.
B2 (;->
I didn't forget... and wasn't responding to you specifically. But as with anything in this world, there is no one proper way to do things and what works for me might not work for you. Education is generally a good thing. Let's remember that GW taught at many art schools.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Not necessarily. If the school is useless (poor tutors, poor equipment, no useful introductions) then it must surely be a waste of time.
Also, "waste of time" has to be set against what else you could do with those same, few, precious years. Such as working as an assistant.
Cheers,
R.
Emile de Leon
Well-known
I live right next to a Univ...real close..my house is located about 40' from the dorms..and I get to see a lot of students every day..
This particular little ivy league college where I live... charges about 60K per year..
I often wonder..why would anyone want to get into that kind of debt these days..
and spend about 10% of their prime 40 year adult living & working life...18 to 60...going to school and doing what other people say they should be doing for good grades and a piece of paper..and getting into extreme debt too.. and at such a young age..
And let me tell you this..these kids are plain scared these days..as jobs are scarce..even with a PHD..
My sister graduated from the same Univ in 1969..the tuition was about 3K per year then..
It aint 1970 anymore...
This particular little ivy league college where I live... charges about 60K per year..
I often wonder..why would anyone want to get into that kind of debt these days..
and spend about 10% of their prime 40 year adult living & working life...18 to 60...going to school and doing what other people say they should be doing for good grades and a piece of paper..and getting into extreme debt too.. and at such a young age..
And let me tell you this..these kids are plain scared these days..as jobs are scarce..even with a PHD..
My sister graduated from the same Univ in 1969..the tuition was about 3K per year then..
It aint 1970 anymore...
Roger Hicks
Veteran
This is indeed the point. Trouble is, no-one knows what the future holds. A lot of young people are mercilessly conned, whether by old fogeys telling them how things once were, even though their own experience may no longer be relevant, or hard-sell merchants telling them (with no evidence whatsoever) how things are going to be.
There's a good thread on a UK photographic forum about Universal Basic Income: http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/forums/threads/universal-basic-income.129715/
Cheers,
R.
You say not necessarily, but I did say ... sure it can be.
BillBingham2
Registered User
Sy Syms always said an informed consumer is his best customer.
If you don't like it change, transfer, go to management and see what other options are available. Learn what doesn't work for you and find a place that give you what you need how you like it. Some of my students tried more traditional schools (local public community college) and it didn't work for them, they really love our school.
B2 (;->
Roger Hicks
Veteran
BillBingham2
Registered User
College students are consumers. Lots of options, lots of places, all with a bit of difference (e.g. price, flexibility, diversity) and it's up to the consumer to understand how they can get what they want and make it happen.
Deans, Department Heads, Professors, Financial Aid, to name but a few types in the management chain.
B2 (;->
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Bill,
No, no, no, a thousand times no. To conflate study and consumption is about as awful a mistake as one can make.
Cheers,
R.
pepeguitarra
Well-known
Dam Iphones!!
Dam Iphones!!
That is not all, my local community college, where I was going to sign up for photography classes, just told me that they only have digital photography classes (read it: Photoshop). No longer they offer wet dark room. Shame!!!!
Dam Iphones!!
That is not all, my local community college, where I was going to sign up for photography classes, just told me that they only have digital photography classes (read it: Photoshop). No longer they offer wet dark room. Shame!!!!