pepeguitarra
Well-known
Next: Journalism Schools
Next: Journalism Schools
Next in line is journalism schools. Anyowe can nowdays open a blog while in high school and become a journalist. Sad, the world is moving too fast toward a world of nothing, no wonder we have D.J.T.
Next: Journalism Schools
Next in line is journalism schools. Anyowe can nowdays open a blog while in high school and become a journalist. Sad, the world is moving too fast toward a world of nothing, no wonder we have D.J.T.
radi(c)al_cam
Well-known
Correct. But what did the ancient Roman jurists say? «Qui vult decipi, decipiatur»
BillBingham2
Registered User
Study is the consumption of information that hopefully leads to knowledge and abilities. Here in the states you have a pretty wide range of choices of schools you can apply to.
Not everyone learns the same way, not every school is right for every student. Some need smaller more individual attention, others need to be part of large groups, others thrive online.
I don't see how that could be a mistake, please elaborate.
Thanks.
B2 (;->
Bill Clark
Veteran
For me, studying is figuring out the process and does it lead to a solution. The how and why things happen. Most of the time when I think I have figured out something, the solution usually opens doors to other ideas seeking answers!
I don't need to consume any information anymore because I can use words to search using the likes of Google. It may not always be true but it can be a start.
I don't need to consume any information anymore because I can use words to search using the likes of Google. It may not always be true but it can be a start.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Bill,
First sentence, once again: no, no, no and a thousand times no. You can't "consume" knowledge: it's a meaningless misappropriation of a neo-liberal buzz-word.
Second sentence: in France, anyone with a baccalauréat (like a high school diploma) can go to pretty much any university except a few elite Grandes Ecoles. You don't need to apply. The US educational system is better than some, and worse than others; possibly, quite a lot of others. Few others, though, make the egregious mistake of conflating "student" and "consumer". England is one of those few.
Cheers,
R.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Eh? What the hell does a "journalism school" teach? I've been a journalist for well over 30 years and I have yet to meet anyone, except slavish yes-men, who ever learned anything at "journalism school". In fact, I've met very few successful journalists who ever went to "journalism school".
Journalism means writing for journals. Pretending it's a learned profession, or that it requires any kind of qualification, is beneath pity.
Cheers,
R.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
For the benefit of the non-Latinists amomg us I translate Petronius's version (mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur): the world wishes to be deceived, and is therefore deceived.Correct. But what did the ancient Roman jurists say? «Qui vult decipi, decipiatur»
Cheers,
R.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
The qualifications for being a journalist would be the ability to write articles that clearly explain the story to the readers; the ability to do research; and honesty.
You can't teach the last of those qualifications, and the first two can be learned with a degree in a liberal arts subject, such as history, or literature. Those are the people who were hired as journalists before some idiot came up with the idea of 'journalism school.'
pepeguitarra
Well-known
Going to school to learn, not to get a job!
Going to school to learn, not to get a job!
My daughter went to school and majored in Art History and Visual Culture. When I asked her what job can she do. Her answer was: I did not go to school to learn to do a job, I went to school to learn.
Maybe this is in line with what Roger said. I went to school to learn a trade and get a job, instead of following my original instincts of being an artist.
Going to school to learn, not to get a job!
My daughter went to school and majored in Art History and Visual Culture. When I asked her what job can she do. Her answer was: I did not go to school to learn to do a job, I went to school to learn.
Maybe this is in line with what Roger said. I went to school to learn a trade and get a job, instead of following my original instincts of being an artist.
BillBingham2
Registered User
But I'm an ardent capitalist? Actually I'm a Rockefeller Republican if you need to put a label on me.
I always thought that "the acquisition of knowledge or skills through experience, study, or by being taught." (Thank you google) was pretty accurate. Knowledge and or skills are things you keep in your brain. So if not consume, what would you call it?
No question there are some better, but having lived in three very different states for a reasonable period of time I have to say each system has advantages and disadvantages. Again, I draw you back to individuals excelling in different approaches. From the number of students who come over to the US from around the world for all four years of their undergraduate degree, I have to think we are doing more than a few things right.
We could be in a lot worse company.....Cambridge, Oxford, and the list goes on.....
B2 (;->
nongfuspring
Well-known
In the U.S. the tertiary education system is less about knowledge acquisition and more about personal brand association. It's not what the students learn, it's the exclusive vetting process and prestige that comes with graduating from a given institution. Proof is with universities like Harvard where only a small fraction of the school's resources are used towards teaching or research while post docs work on barely more than subsistence wages. While many of these elite schools do provide very good education, you can't assume that they are elite because they provide good education.
IMO there are plenty of far more education oriented universities, most universities in continental Europe have an extremely high standard, but nobody is going to make a popular teen comedy set in ETH Zurich.
IMO there are plenty of far more education oriented universities, most universities in continental Europe have an extremely high standard, but nobody is going to make a popular teen comedy set in ETH Zurich.
farlymac
PF McFarland
If one only consumes knowledge, it passes through the system, and is ejected as waste. One must absorb knowledge for it to do any good.
PF
ps:How did this thread go so off kilter so quickly?
PF
ps:How did this thread go so off kilter so quickly?
segedi
RFicianado
Unfortunately from what I've seen, in the US at least, the way that schools are marketed, students are consumers of slickly branded schools. They buy into the artificial just as much as the actual benefits that they are sold. Faculty and alumni are not immune to the hype and aura either.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Chris,
First para: alas, no. The qualifications for being a journalist are (a) being able to write articles that people want to read and (b) getting them in front of people.
If clarity, research and honesty were required, whole sections of the media would close down: think of the National Enquirer or Fox News.
Second para: you don't really need a degree in ANYTHING to become a journalist, and more than you do to become a writer. The old route of joining a local newspaper as a cub reporter (or even as a messenger boy), and working your way up, produced many of the best reporters of all time.
A great deal of tertiary "education" is a means of disguising youth unemployment. Another large part is a means of infantilization, of protecting children from the harsh realities and hard work of earning a living. To be sure, there are plenty of trade schools, including art schools and law schools, but the proper function of a university is to explore and extend human knowledge.
Cheers,
R.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
It's not "off kilter". It's about what you can and can't learn at school; about the quality of schools (and how it can go up and down); about the difference between education and training; and about the value or otherwise of "qualifications".
All of this is extremely applicable to Brooks.
Cheers,
R.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Bill,
One can absorb knowledge; or study a subject; or seek an education. None of these has anything whatsoever to do with "consuming" education.
To call a student a "consumer" is to set them on a par with someone who buys the latest fashionable clothes or iPhones, and to set education on a par with anything than can be bought and sold.
Cheers,
R.
I don't think some universities and schools are that far off from those items. It might be sad, but it isn't too far off. Some people just buy a degree as a means to obtain something else.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/BUSINESS/01/11/fake.college.degrees/
SaveKodak
Well-known
I have a BA in photography from Southern Illinois University. I have some mixed feelings about it. No specific regrets, I followed my passion and my and I work in photography today. I have a full time job that is photo-related and I shoot weddings for a high end studio here in NYC. But there are times when I think I could have been doing something else that actually offered security, and still go on practicing photography all I want. Then again, my work wouldn't be as good. I roughly live the lifestyle I imagined for myself, though unsurprisingly on a far less grand scale than I would have hoped. Turns out, I'm not Garry Winogrand reborn. *shrug* [Actually was he alive in '84 when I was born?] If someone asked me if they should go to Brooks I'd probably say a resounding no. They'd learn more assisting in a year then in 3 at Brooks. If they asked me if they should get a liberal arts degree in Photo, well, I don't know. It's not an easy way to make a living, but it can be rewarding. Of course, I don't know how the average corporate worker bee feels day in-day out).
segedi
RFicianado
A degree in marketing, business, sociology or psychology might be a better route for future photographers. As mentioned, photo skills can be picked up without a degree. But knowing how to market yourself or know your subjects might be best learned in the classroom.
Back to the topic, Brooks turned into a diploma mill with more emphasis on their profits than students.
Back to the topic, Brooks turned into a diploma mill with more emphasis on their profits than students.
nongfuspring
Well-known
Had you gone that route you may well not be doing any photography at all. I think often the best bet to getting really good at something is to make it your only option (an observation rather than advice). In my downtime I often have the same thought, to get a sensible career, but then an opportunity or cash gets thrown at me and I'm too busy to think about it.
At least within design/art/photography fields, about 7 years out and nobody really cares where you graduated from, only what your portfolio and CV looks like. Same can't be said for many other disciplines.