Corran
Well-known
Small correction - x-ray means Super Angulon XL, and XL series. Just to clarify. Great lenses, I have them in 47/58/72/90.
Benjamin Marks
Veteran
You need a tape measure and a calculator. You are going to be calculating a lot of exposure compensation for bellows extension that is greater than your focal length. A torpedo level is nice, but not necessary. Mechanical pencil to mark your filmholders. Duct tape. Always duct tape.
I like a thread counter rather than a loupe.
I like a thread counter rather than a loupe.
Corran
Well-known
IMO don't overly complicate it. Tape measures and exact bellows compensation calculations aren't really needed for most images. I shoot lots of 4x5 and I just eyeball bellows extension when focused closer than 20ft. If you are shooting slides and macro okay maybe you need the tape measure. Shooting a few dozen sheets should alert you to what you are missing.
I hiked quite a bit on the Appalachian Trail yesterday with my 4x5 and a few lenses. Other than a loupe and meter in my pockets and a little windbreaker jacket attached to my pack I don't have much else. A couple of Grafmatics filled with b&w and some color film in normal film holders. All lenses get their own board and cable release. Oh, maybe a filter wallet with some filters if needed.
I hiked quite a bit on the Appalachian Trail yesterday with my 4x5 and a few lenses. Other than a loupe and meter in my pockets and a little windbreaker jacket attached to my pack I don't have much else. A couple of Grafmatics filled with b&w and some color film in normal film holders. All lenses get their own board and cable release. Oh, maybe a filter wallet with some filters if needed.
farlymac
PF McFarland
Well, Rob, looks like you and I are in the same boat here. I'm getting back into 4x5 after a twenty year hiatus. Got a Calumet 400 for the monorail, and a Crown Graphic Special to replace the one I had to sell many years ago. It helps that the Crown has built in barn doors to make the focus screen easier to see.
I like the information about lenses, guys, thanks for all that. It kind of echos what I had been thinking about for the 400, as the 135mm Raptar that came on it looks like it was cleaned with a Brillo pad. The shutter is okay, just needs a little cleaning as it's kind of sluggish on the slower speeds. Nothing I can't fix.
I'm thinking of using my Pink Floyd "Dark Side of the Moon" album cover flag for my dark cloth.
PF
I like the information about lenses, guys, thanks for all that. It kind of echos what I had been thinking about for the 400, as the 135mm Raptar that came on it looks like it was cleaned with a Brillo pad. The shutter is okay, just needs a little cleaning as it's kind of sluggish on the slower speeds. Nothing I can't fix.
I'm thinking of using my Pink Floyd "Dark Side of the Moon" album cover flag for my dark cloth.
PF
Dwig
Well-known
Correct, don't over complicate things. You need to deal with bellows compensation if you do closeup work, but not for landscape. As a rule of thumb, ignore the issue if the point if best focus is at a distance equal to at least 10x the focal length.
Also, make use of the real estate on the lens board. I used to tape a small chart with the pre-calculated bellows compensations so I never had to do any calculations in the field, simply measure and consult the chart.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Even then, work to the nearest half stop, erring on the side of over-exposure as necessary: with B+W LF the penalties in bigger grain and loss of sharpness are trivial.
Also, (to the OP) ignore all the advice about what lenses you need. Use whatever comes up cheap. That will teach you what you need for YOUR photography, not somebody else's.
Remember that even ancient lenses, more or less damaged, will often give good or even excellent results on LF. Increase development for more contrast: scratches and fungus reduce sharpness less than most people imagine.
I'm just in the middle of making up two more lens panels for my 8x10 De Vere. I had the wood cut to size (two pieces per panel) and the total cost of materials was 1.39€: about $1.50 or £1.15. Then I'm going to try some lenses I was given! LF is cheap entertainment.
Cheers,
R.
Mackinaw
Think Different
I agree with this. I’m new to 4X5 photography, having bought an ancient 1950's Busch Pressman a few years back. It came with a 135mm F4.7 Wollensak Raptar lens, which I gather is a Tessar-formula lens. Stopped down a few stops, the performance is amazing. And it’s not bad wide-open, if you don’t mind a bit of corner softness. The whole setup only cost me $100.00 USD.
4X5 has changed my photography. Probably 25% of my film photography is now with the 4X5. This weekend I’m going to photograph a local model with it.
Jim B.
mbisc
Silver Halide User
One final recommendation from my side -- stay away from wide-angle lenses. We're so used to them from smaller formats to get better depth-of-field, but you don't need that for 4x5 -- you need coverage (i.e. image circle) .
The "standard" lens for a 4x5 is around 200mm (about 55mm in 135-land, but due to the different aspect ratio, it's about "normal" angle of view). Any old 200mm lens will have great coverage to truly learn movements (even just shift...). I have both an old f7.7/203 Ektar and a modern f5.6/210 APO Sironar-S, and either one is just wonderful to work with...
The "standard" lens for a 4x5 is around 200mm (about 55mm in 135-land, but due to the different aspect ratio, it's about "normal" angle of view). Any old 200mm lens will have great coverage to truly learn movements (even just shift...). I have both an old f7.7/203 Ektar and a modern f5.6/210 APO Sironar-S, and either one is just wonderful to work with...
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Mike,
Not sure I agree. Ultra-wide interior shots can have a certain magic, and you don't need to rack the lens out much to persuade even marginal lenses to give adequate coverage indoors.
Also, the standard lens for 4x5 inch is generally reckoned to be 150mm, not 8" (203mm)/210mm: that's "standard" for 5x7 inch/half plate/13x18cm. On 4x5 inch I've used lenses from 47mm upwards, but I prefer 5x7 inch so my normal wide-angle on that format is 110mm.
Cheers,
R.
Pioneer
Veteran
Wow! Great reading. Some of you take your 4x5 stuff really serious.
I started out the same way. Lots of lists. After all, half the fun is buying all this new stuff. I have a box full, quite literally, of lenses, filters, loupes, dark cloths, film holders and any number of other things. E-bay is wonderful.
Right away I began to realize I wasn't using my camera as much as I thought I would. Too much hassle.
So one day I put my camera and lens on a tripod, slid a few film holders into my fanny pack with a couple of bottles of water, and went for a walk. Oh, I also brought a small notebook and pencil to take notes on what I had left behind. There were a couple things (like a dark cloth.)
But, believe it or not, I did come back with some photographs that first day. And they actually turned out pretty good! Sunny 16 still works (spotmeter was left sitting on the kitchen counter.)
Since then I have taken a lot of photographs, learned which lenses I like (and why) and figured out when to apply a little extra exposure to lift the shadows or to better expose up close, and a host of other things I had read about in books and then promptly forgot. I am now at the age where forgetting is the easiest thing I do.
But interestingly, my fanny pack doesn't have much more in it than it did the first day. I found that I could do without a lot of things I thought were important. There are a few extra items but everything still fits easily into the fanny pack or into my pockets. I purposely try to keep things as simple as I possibly can. I now have a much simpler list tucked into my notebook.
I now carry my Intrepid, but not much else has changed. The camera is certainly lighter but that is about it.
I develop with a Jobo 2509n. I scan my negatives on an Epson V500 (thanks charjohncarter) and print on a Canon (my Beseler has become a clothes horse and shelf.)
For me, simpler is better. I use my camera a lot more now. I am not as intimidated by how many things I can forget.
I started out the same way. Lots of lists. After all, half the fun is buying all this new stuff. I have a box full, quite literally, of lenses, filters, loupes, dark cloths, film holders and any number of other things. E-bay is wonderful.
Right away I began to realize I wasn't using my camera as much as I thought I would. Too much hassle.
So one day I put my camera and lens on a tripod, slid a few film holders into my fanny pack with a couple of bottles of water, and went for a walk. Oh, I also brought a small notebook and pencil to take notes on what I had left behind. There were a couple things (like a dark cloth.)
But, believe it or not, I did come back with some photographs that first day. And they actually turned out pretty good! Sunny 16 still works (spotmeter was left sitting on the kitchen counter.)
Since then I have taken a lot of photographs, learned which lenses I like (and why) and figured out when to apply a little extra exposure to lift the shadows or to better expose up close, and a host of other things I had read about in books and then promptly forgot. I am now at the age where forgetting is the easiest thing I do.
But interestingly, my fanny pack doesn't have much more in it than it did the first day. I found that I could do without a lot of things I thought were important. There are a few extra items but everything still fits easily into the fanny pack or into my pockets. I purposely try to keep things as simple as I possibly can. I now have a much simpler list tucked into my notebook.
I now carry my Intrepid, but not much else has changed. The camera is certainly lighter but that is about it.
I develop with a Jobo 2509n. I scan my negatives on an Epson V500 (thanks charjohncarter) and print on a Canon (my Beseler has become a clothes horse and shelf.)
For me, simpler is better. I use my camera a lot more now. I am not as intimidated by how many things I can forget.
gwgchase
Newbie
As someone mentioned a few posts up, don't overthink things too much.
In general you will find that you don't have to overdo every little detail to get a good result.
I would say though that because everything is manual, you need to set forth a systematic way of doing all that is needed. Then do it the same way every time so you don't forget. As a simple example, the sequence of compose, close shutter, set aperture, get film cartridge in place, open cartridge, take image, close cartridge... amazing how many ways you can goof that up. So practice before you have negatives that you care about.
Also, it really helps to practice in the dark with loading film holders. Be absolutely sure that you know the position and orientation of the film by the cuts, and that you know how the film feels when loaded properly and flat in the holder.
I found that vacuming the film holders with a big shop vac was helpful. Loading in a bathroom (steam it up some, then close the doors until the steam settles) works well. Don't kill yourself about light leaks. If you can sit in the room in the dark for 10 minutes and can see no obvious light you are beyond good. I have an antistatic brush. That seemed to help as well.
In general you will find that you don't have to overdo every little detail to get a good result.
I would say though that because everything is manual, you need to set forth a systematic way of doing all that is needed. Then do it the same way every time so you don't forget. As a simple example, the sequence of compose, close shutter, set aperture, get film cartridge in place, open cartridge, take image, close cartridge... amazing how many ways you can goof that up. So practice before you have negatives that you care about.
Also, it really helps to practice in the dark with loading film holders. Be absolutely sure that you know the position and orientation of the film by the cuts, and that you know how the film feels when loaded properly and flat in the holder.
I found that vacuming the film holders with a big shop vac was helpful. Loading in a bathroom (steam it up some, then close the doors until the steam settles) works well. Don't kill yourself about light leaks. If you can sit in the room in the dark for 10 minutes and can see no obvious light you are beyond good. I have an antistatic brush. That seemed to help as well.
rbiemer
Unabashed Amateur
Lots of good info and helpful advice, folks. Thank you.
I am going to use the lens I have now for the foreseeable future--depending on actual results on film. The Intrepid is designed around lenses from 90mm to 300mm. The bellows is, apparently, permanently attached so no bag bellows option for really wide lenses. 65mm is possible with a recessed lens board but there can't be much movement available.
I did order a pinhole lens board to come with the camera so I can explore various focal lengths and, hopefully, see what lens(es)I might want to try next.
I am not generally too wound up about the technical part of this hobby but, I do like to have a plan and at least a starting point for the method(s) I'll need to make this work for me.
I've sat in the closet I'm planning to use for loading film holders and the daylight tank I bought to go along with the camera and after 15 minutes, I still couldn't see anything--set a timer and left that outside so I would see any light from it.
So, I'm going to sacrifice some film and load the holders I have, let them sit out for a while and then process that film--this will, I hope, show me several things: my darkroom is dark, I have light tight holders, and I know how to load the tank and follow directions for processing.
Then it'll be back to waiting on the camera.
I'll let you know how this goes.
Rob
I am going to use the lens I have now for the foreseeable future--depending on actual results on film. The Intrepid is designed around lenses from 90mm to 300mm. The bellows is, apparently, permanently attached so no bag bellows option for really wide lenses. 65mm is possible with a recessed lens board but there can't be much movement available.
I did order a pinhole lens board to come with the camera so I can explore various focal lengths and, hopefully, see what lens(es)I might want to try next.
I am not generally too wound up about the technical part of this hobby but, I do like to have a plan and at least a starting point for the method(s) I'll need to make this work for me.
I've sat in the closet I'm planning to use for loading film holders and the daylight tank I bought to go along with the camera and after 15 minutes, I still couldn't see anything--set a timer and left that outside so I would see any light from it.
So, I'm going to sacrifice some film and load the holders I have, let them sit out for a while and then process that film--this will, I hope, show me several things: my darkroom is dark, I have light tight holders, and I know how to load the tank and follow directions for processing.
Then it'll be back to waiting on the camera.
I'll let you know how this goes.
Rob
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Pioneer
Veteran
There are a couple little items I find useful.
I carry two little bubble levels with me in my pocket since I can't ever seem to get my camera leveled out.
I used to carry my Pentax Spotmeter all the time but usually don't any longer. Instead I use a little Sekonic Twinmate or Weston Master IV and take readings off of a small Michael Tapes WhiBal card I have in my wallet if I need it.
Since the Intrepid arrived I have been getting into using different camera movements. This started leading to me packing one of the bulkier items in kit, an LCD display screen magnifying viewfinder. It works great for checking critical focus and since it is square on the end for the digital camera display screen, it fits very neatly into the corners of the ground glass.
Good luck Rob. I hope you enjoy your Intrepid as much as I have mine.
I carry two little bubble levels with me in my pocket since I can't ever seem to get my camera leveled out.
I used to carry my Pentax Spotmeter all the time but usually don't any longer. Instead I use a little Sekonic Twinmate or Weston Master IV and take readings off of a small Michael Tapes WhiBal card I have in my wallet if I need it.
Since the Intrepid arrived I have been getting into using different camera movements. This started leading to me packing one of the bulkier items in kit, an LCD display screen magnifying viewfinder. It works great for checking critical focus and since it is square on the end for the digital camera display screen, it fits very neatly into the corners of the ground glass.
Good luck Rob. I hope you enjoy your Intrepid as much as I have mine.
Dwig
Well-known
Terminology get abused here. The "standard" lens has changed over the decades whereas "normal" has a fixed meaning, at least when the terms are used correctly.
"Normal" is a focal length somewhat near the diagonal measure of the image. For 4x5, that would be in the 120-135mm range. This is what was almost always bundled with the old press cameras. The "standard" beginner's lens for a student of studio photography, from the mid-1960s and onward, would be a 200-210mm lens.
Back when I shot landscape/rocks-and-trees stuff with 4x5, my kit was a very late vintage 90mm Angulon (not the "Super" version) and a 180mm Nikkor-W. They made a nice set.
@OP: As was already mentioned: when you are starting out, don't fuss with lens recommendations. Use the lens you have. It will work fine, and you can learn a lot with it. You may find that you want to boost the development, both time and agitation, a bit to compensate for the older glass & coatings, but that's simple to do. My old Angulon (vintage very late 1950s) didn't need help, but the 90mm WA-Raptar that I used earlier and several other of my other oldies did need ~10-15% more development to yield negs that I liked.
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
A carrying case to keep the film holders in. They are voluminous and you need to be able to distinct between loaded and spent film holders too. Here's some ideas: http://www.filmholders.com/softcase.html, also for DIY lens wraps!
Also, not sure if you have it yet but a good filing system for negatives, scans, online posts and prints will help you to find any image back. I can wholeheartedly recommend my own filing system, explained here: http://johanniels.com/camera-gear-blog-posts/howto/93-never-lose-an-image
And, for outdoor shooting, bring a few of those single-use rain ponchos if there's any risk of rain. It takes a lot of time to set the kit up when outdoors, but also takes a lot of time to pack it in so quickly covering it up might be a smart move... I always have a few of those ponchos at the bottom of my bag, also works as extra padding
Also, not sure if you have it yet but a good filing system for negatives, scans, online posts and prints will help you to find any image back. I can wholeheartedly recommend my own filing system, explained here: http://johanniels.com/camera-gear-blog-posts/howto/93-never-lose-an-image
And, for outdoor shooting, bring a few of those single-use rain ponchos if there's any risk of rain. It takes a lot of time to set the kit up when outdoors, but also takes a lot of time to pack it in so quickly covering it up might be a smart move... I always have a few of those ponchos at the bottom of my bag, also works as extra padding
x-ray
Veteran
Your lens will be sharp enough but you'll quickly find it won't allow much if any movements. Whats the point of a view camera if you can't use movements. That's what they're all about and of course large negs.
Normal is in the 150mm range. A 200/210 is a mild tele and often considered the go to lens for product although there's no rule of thumb as to what to use. It all comes down to matching the lens to your concept of how you want your image to look and or the space available to shoot. Wides are lenses shorter than 135. Like 35mm they go from moderate to extreme wide as do teles going from around 180 up.
I consider normals from 135 to 180 with 150 being the popular normal FL.
Lenses like the Angulon (not Super Angulon) and wide angle Raptar were designed for press cameras as were the 127 Raptar, Ektar, xenar, Tessa's and others and do not have much if any covering power. The image circles just cover 4x5.
Don't get bogged down with stuff. I got my first 4x5 in 1964 and made much of my living with view cameras and my normal kit is film as per the requirements of the shoot, loupe, dark cloth, meter, lenses as required, cable release and tripod. If I'm shooting with my Deardorff's I carry a 4" bubble level. No frills needed. No designer film bags and no $400 Maxwell screens. Just the basics are all I need.
Don't get bogged down in gadgets.
Do not buy just any cheap lens or you'll be back in the same position your in now with little to no movements.
Normal is in the 150mm range. A 200/210 is a mild tele and often considered the go to lens for product although there's no rule of thumb as to what to use. It all comes down to matching the lens to your concept of how you want your image to look and or the space available to shoot. Wides are lenses shorter than 135. Like 35mm they go from moderate to extreme wide as do teles going from around 180 up.
I consider normals from 135 to 180 with 150 being the popular normal FL.
Lenses like the Angulon (not Super Angulon) and wide angle Raptar were designed for press cameras as were the 127 Raptar, Ektar, xenar, Tessa's and others and do not have much if any covering power. The image circles just cover 4x5.
Don't get bogged down with stuff. I got my first 4x5 in 1964 and made much of my living with view cameras and my normal kit is film as per the requirements of the shoot, loupe, dark cloth, meter, lenses as required, cable release and tripod. If I'm shooting with my Deardorff's I carry a 4" bubble level. No frills needed. No designer film bags and no $400 Maxwell screens. Just the basics are all I need.
Don't get bogged down in gadgets.
Do not buy just any cheap lens or you'll be back in the same position your in now with little to no movements.
PKR
Veteran
Rubber guard won't scratch the glass. A closed loop prevents stray light..
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Toyo-3-6X-L...6d09845&pid=100011&rk=1&rkt=4&sd=322483515746
Love the Toyo.. had many, liked the Toyo best.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Toyo-3-6X-L...6d09845&pid=100011&rk=1&rkt=4&sd=322483515746
Love the Toyo.. had many, liked the Toyo best.
Dwig
Well-known
The Angulon has almost the covering power of the f/8 Super Angulon, only about 5deg less, and is has substantially more even illumination across the image than a "Super". Few "landscape" photographers using 4x5 will ever encounter coverage issues with a 90mm Angulon and they'll not need the expensive center filter, or extra dodging in the darkroom, to get even exposure across a wide sky.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
An American usage, perhaps. I had not encountered the distinction before, in over 40 years of using and writing about LF, or in talking to lens manufacturers, though it's arguably quite useful. Of course the "standard" lens for press photography was 127mm (5 inch) or 135mm...
Cheers,
R.