MemphisMonroe
Member
I just scored a very nice Beoon set yesterday on a auction and I'm super psyched about it. I do have some questions about it though that I can't' seem to find any straight answers about thought.
1. APS-C VS FF sensor?
I don't own a digital camera at the moment so this have to be purchased. I've read somewhere that getting a 1:1 scan is important, but with a crop sensor you would add 0.61x magnification, this post also mentions that the APS-C sensor will crop some of your negative. But can't you just raise the helicoid
? I've seen a lot of people in this forum that uses APS-C cameras with the Beoon and not mentioning any problems with this setup.
2. Scanning 120mm Medium Format
I've also read a post somewhere on how to stitch your images after scanning medium format with the beoon, but this is bull**** right? I haven't read anywhere else that you have to stitch your images. Or do you have to have a wider enlarger lens for 120film?
3. Enlarger Lenses
The Beoon has M-mount? Does this mean I need adapters if I want to use Rodenstock's, Nikkor's or Schneider?
Thanks!
1. APS-C VS FF sensor?
I don't own a digital camera at the moment so this have to be purchased. I've read somewhere that getting a 1:1 scan is important, but with a crop sensor you would add 0.61x magnification, this post also mentions that the APS-C sensor will crop some of your negative. But can't you just raise the helicoid
? I've seen a lot of people in this forum that uses APS-C cameras with the Beoon and not mentioning any problems with this setup. 2. Scanning 120mm Medium Format
I've also read a post somewhere on how to stitch your images after scanning medium format with the beoon, but this is bull**** right? I haven't read anywhere else that you have to stitch your images. Or do you have to have a wider enlarger lens for 120film?
3. Enlarger Lenses
The Beoon has M-mount? Does this mean I need adapters if I want to use Rodenstock's, Nikkor's or Schneider?
Thanks!
Scrambler
Well-known
Not my territory but in general you will need to have wide enough view for your original. You need to be able to focus well under the rangefinder minimum focus of most lenses and even more than most enlarger lenses. And an M-to-39mm adapter is easy to come by. I think your biggest issue will be a 21mm macro for MF. Maybe wider? 28mm is pretty close to a normal lens on a crop sensor digital. These were not designed for the task you have in mind. At least theres more options than a more typical slide copier.
Peter Jennings
Well-known
There are a couple threads here with a lot of info on this. I have no experience using a BEOON with APS-C. I use a Sony A7. The live view is very helpful for framing and focussing. You don't need to stitch 120, but some choose to to get the highest resolution possible. Full BEOON kits should include an L39-M adapter. Often these are missing. The BEOON extension tubes are L39.
Axel
singleshooter
Yes, if you want to use the BEOON for digitalising you might go easier with a digital compact camera.
Smaller sensors have the advantage of working easy with short distances in combination with their fixed optics.
For filmbased reproducing there is a lot equipment available.
If you want to build a system around an M camera, you should get a visioflex.
The other, perhaps easier way may be to look for a SLR with a suitable macro lens.
Smaller sensors have the advantage of working easy with short distances in combination with their fixed optics.
For filmbased reproducing there is a lot equipment available.
If you want to build a system around an M camera, you should get a visioflex.
The other, perhaps easier way may be to look for a SLR with a suitable macro lens.
It won't be a problem to use APS-C. I used both APS-C and full-frame. You will have to adjust the extension tubes depending on what lens you use in order to maximize the negative size on the sensor.
I used a 50/4 EL Nikkor on my setup.
The key for BEOON scanning is the lighting and a smooth, speedy workflow to remove the orange mask. This may take a while to perfect. Also, to speed things up, look for a Negatrans. I found one on ebay for $20ish and this greatly sped up the process and kept negative handling to a minimum.
I used a 50/4 EL Nikkor on my setup.
The key for BEOON scanning is the lighting and a smooth, speedy workflow to remove the orange mask. This may take a while to perfect. Also, to speed things up, look for a Negatrans. I found one on ebay for $20ish and this greatly sped up the process and kept negative handling to a minimum.
MemphisMonroe
Member
Thanks for all the quick replies guys. I have been scouting a lot in older posts but I just want to make sure of all details before I start purchasing expensive cameras and lenses :angel:
I'm very happy to see that it won't be a problem to use a APS-C compact camera. I've been looking to use the Fujifilm X-E2 for this purpose, if this wouldn't be a recommended camera for some reason please let me know.
And it's certain that I can use this camera for both 35mm and 120mm without it cropping the neg or need to stitch the the image later post production? With a 50mm enlarger lens.
I'm very happy to see that it won't be a problem to use a APS-C compact camera. I've been looking to use the Fujifilm X-E2 for this purpose, if this wouldn't be a recommended camera for some reason please let me know.
And it's certain that I can use this camera for both 35mm and 120mm without it cropping the neg or need to stitch the the image later post production? With a 50mm enlarger lens.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
The BEOON is designed to enable a 50mm lens the range of magnifications from 1:1 to 1:3.
120 formats (measured by the short dimension, about 56mm) constitute a 1:2.3 magnification on full-frame 35mm format.
Typical digital APS-C format size is 16x24mm (Canon is slightly smaller), so to capture a full 35mm film frame on APS-C requires about a 1:1.5 magnification, well within the range that BEOON can achieve. 120 formats on APS-C requires a 1:3.5 magnification, which is beyond the range possible with a 50mm lens; you'll need about a 40mm lens for that magnification.
I've had good success capturing 120 square format (56x56mm) with the Leica SL using the BEOON fitted with either a Micro-Nikkor 55mm f/3.5 or a Macro-Elmarit-R 60mm f/2.8. The latter requires I extend the column right to its working limit to cover the negative format completely.
I tried using various enlarging negative carriers with the BEOON and gave up ... it's too difficult to set up properly, IMO, and pushes the negative further below the designed for focus plane than was intended. Instead, I constructed a channel made of two pieces of thick printing paper taped to the flat-panel light box at the film width and a thin piece of strong glass taped over them. I tape the BEOON down onto the glass as well, once I have it properly aligned. With all surfaces suitably cleaned to eliminate scratching, I can easily pull a strip of 120 negatives through the imaging gate, emulsion side up, and capture them flat and sharp from corner to corner. The setup cost me the price of a thin piece of hardened glass (plus the flat panel light box and BEOON itself, of course; I already had the lenses and mount adapters for fitting them onto M-mount). Using macro lenses with a focusing mount that already allows continuously variable range from infinity down to 1:2 magnification makes it much much easier to set up the BEOON for covering various formats.
I capture 35mm film with a Nikon Coolscan V, so the BEOON setup is used exclusively for medium and oddball format sizes.
G
120 formats (measured by the short dimension, about 56mm) constitute a 1:2.3 magnification on full-frame 35mm format.
Typical digital APS-C format size is 16x24mm (Canon is slightly smaller), so to capture a full 35mm film frame on APS-C requires about a 1:1.5 magnification, well within the range that BEOON can achieve. 120 formats on APS-C requires a 1:3.5 magnification, which is beyond the range possible with a 50mm lens; you'll need about a 40mm lens for that magnification.
I've had good success capturing 120 square format (56x56mm) with the Leica SL using the BEOON fitted with either a Micro-Nikkor 55mm f/3.5 or a Macro-Elmarit-R 60mm f/2.8. The latter requires I extend the column right to its working limit to cover the negative format completely.
I tried using various enlarging negative carriers with the BEOON and gave up ... it's too difficult to set up properly, IMO, and pushes the negative further below the designed for focus plane than was intended. Instead, I constructed a channel made of two pieces of thick printing paper taped to the flat-panel light box at the film width and a thin piece of strong glass taped over them. I tape the BEOON down onto the glass as well, once I have it properly aligned. With all surfaces suitably cleaned to eliminate scratching, I can easily pull a strip of 120 negatives through the imaging gate, emulsion side up, and capture them flat and sharp from corner to corner. The setup cost me the price of a thin piece of hardened glass (plus the flat panel light box and BEOON itself, of course; I already had the lenses and mount adapters for fitting them onto M-mount). Using macro lenses with a focusing mount that already allows continuously variable range from infinity down to 1:2 magnification makes it much much easier to set up the BEOON for covering various formats.
I capture 35mm film with a Nikon Coolscan V, so the BEOON setup is used exclusively for medium and oddball format sizes.
G
MemphisMonroe
Member
Wouldn't a 40mm enlarger lens then make a APS-C 1:1 on the Beoon? At least very close. Wouldn't that be the best and most simple solution and allows for both 35mm & 120mm scanning?
dourbalistar
Buy more film
This blog post was very helpful to me for my own BEOON setup. The poster uses a X-Pro 1.
I use a Sony NEX-5T with an APS-C sized sensor and a L39 Nikkor 50mm f/2.8 enlarging lens. Works very well to capture 35mm and 120 film. The 50mm Nikkor enlarging lenses can be had very cheaply, don't require any special adapters for the BEOON's extension tubes, and are reputed to have a very flat focus field.
For 120, I take two frames and stitch them together in Lightroom 6 using the Photo Merge > Panorama function. It's an extra step compared to taking a single image, but it's very easy to do, and I get a high resolution stitched image (which to me is sort of the point when shooting medium format).
I think it's seldom mentioned, but one feature you might consider when selecting a digital camera for capture is a tilty-flippy screen. I tilt the screen on my NEX-5T downward so that I can see the screen while seated at a table, which is a lot more comfortable for long scanning sessions. Cameras without a tilty-flippy screen may require you to stand and crane your neck to look down at the LCD.
I use a Sony NEX-5T with an APS-C sized sensor and a L39 Nikkor 50mm f/2.8 enlarging lens. Works very well to capture 35mm and 120 film. The 50mm Nikkor enlarging lenses can be had very cheaply, don't require any special adapters for the BEOON's extension tubes, and are reputed to have a very flat focus field.
For 120, I take two frames and stitch them together in Lightroom 6 using the Photo Merge > Panorama function. It's an extra step compared to taking a single image, but it's very easy to do, and I get a high resolution stitched image (which to me is sort of the point when shooting medium format).
I think it's seldom mentioned, but one feature you might consider when selecting a digital camera for capture is a tilty-flippy screen. I tilt the screen on my NEX-5T downward so that I can see the screen while seated at a table, which is a lot more comfortable for long scanning sessions. Cameras without a tilty-flippy screen may require you to stand and crane your neck to look down at the LCD.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
I don't know what your first question means.
The questions that you need to ask is "What is the minimum extension possible with the BEOON device?" and then "What does that minimum extension mean with respect to magnification?"
A 50mm lens requires 25mm of extension to achieve 1:2 magnification. The BEOON device's minimum extension is 17mm with the A ring installed to fit an M-mount lens, and 8.5mm with no ring installed, exposing an L39 threaded mount.
Given the formula:
Magnification = (Lens to Film distance / Focal Length) - 1
you can achieve about 1:1.2 magnification minimum with an L39 lens and no additional ring, and about 1:1.43 magnification minimum with an M-mount lens using the A ring, when using a 40mm lens. Given that a 24x36 mm frame imaged onto APS-C format requires about 1:1.5 magnification and 56x84mm (6x9cm format) requires about 1:3.5, this means that you can achieve both 35mm and 120 format captures with the BEOON using a 40mm lens (just barely in the case of the M-mount lens, easily in the case of an L39 lens). So a 40mm enlarging lens is probably the most useful if you're primary intent is capturing 35mm to 120 format negatives on APS-C, where 50 is the most useful if you're capturing with FF.
The only problem with the use of a 40mm lens at 1:1.5 magnification is that you won't be able to collapse the BEOON enough to focus on the usual subject target under the base of the stand; you have to raise the film up closer to the lens, since I believe the minimum film to image plane distance is around 180mm and a 40mm lens will achieve 1:1.5 magnification at around 100mm or so distance.
In brief, the BEOON was carefully designed to use with a FF format camera and a lens of about 50mm focal length, providing the correct heights for that combination over the range of 1:1 to 1:3 magnifications. Any other use is adaptation and there are compromises to do so. For this reason, I'd recommend a FF body, Leica or otherwise, as the correct capture camera and a 50-60mm lens to use with the BEOON.
G
Godfrey
somewhat colored
With my Olympus, Sony, and Leica SL cameras, I have used the matching app on my iPhone or iPad to focus, frame, and control the exposure process.
Of course, if you've locked down a good film channel and the camera/stand assembly such that you can slide from frame to frame without moving the setup around, you only need to focus it once when you're setting it up. After that it's just a matter of seeing whether the next frame is properly centered in the image field.
G
There are many options with the BEOON, with camera lenses, enlarging lenses, and varying extension tubes. It's quite a versatile setup.
I found the primary challenge not to be the hardware setup but the software workflow.
I found the primary challenge not to be the hardware setup but the software workflow.
MemphisMonroe
Member
Thank you for your wisdom Godfrey, really appreciate it
Well, apparently not, as Godfrey says the BEOON is engineered for 35mm cameras ("full frame") with 50mm lenses. Everything else just sounds like inconvenience, fumbling, and compromises :/
So I'm considering a second hand canon d5 classic or sony a7.
Well, apparently not, as Godfrey says the BEOON is engineered for 35mm cameras ("full frame") with 50mm lenses. Everything else just sounds like inconvenience, fumbling, and compromises :/
So I'm considering a second hand canon d5 classic or sony a7.
If you saw my previous posts you know that I used enlarging lenses, negative carriers, APS-C cameras, and full-frame cameras on the BEOON. I had no problem adjusting things to get all of the negative no matter which camera was used. Some of my experiences are in other BEOON threads here, including posts about the Beseler Negatrans and light sources.
If that's not versatile, I don't know what else to call it.
Again, the hardware works. It's the software workflow that's the key. This is where much time can be spent and wasted, and it can cause a lot of frustration, if you're scanning color.
If that's not versatile, I don't know what else to call it.
Again, the hardware works. It's the software workflow that's the key. This is where much time can be spent and wasted, and it can cause a lot of frustration, if you're scanning color.
ColSebastianMoran
( IRL Richard Karash )
I don't know the BEOON, not doing Leica gear.
You asked about APS vs full-frame. Camera-scan of negatives, I don't think there is any advantage for FF. For slides, the added dynamic range may be helpful. Maybe.
You asked about APS vs full-frame. Camera-scan of negatives, I don't think there is any advantage for FF. For slides, the added dynamic range may be helpful. Maybe.
Peter Jennings
Well-known
I had a Negatrans for a while but gave up on it for reasons similar to Godfey's. Instead, I fashioned a simple negative holder out of acrylic sheets. Slide the film in, snap, slide, snap, etc. I can capture a roll of film in just a few minutes. There are some pics of my setup on my Flickr page.
leo mm
Member
I have a BEOON, and was tripped up by one issue that doesn't seem to get a lot of attention.
The discussion above is about the merits of different size sensors, and notes that the BEOON was designed for use with a "full frame" size sensor. However: the BEOON was also designed for use with a camera with a fairly short distance between the lens mount and the film plane - a rangefinder, not an SLR.
Accordingly, people today find it to work quite well with mirrorless digital cameras. You will note that no one really seems to be using it with a DSLR. I bought one and tried to use it with a Pentax K-30, and due to the increased distance between the mount and the sensor plane I was unable to find a combination of the included extension tubes that properly magnified 35mm film (using a 50mm lens, which was what the BEOON was designed for).
Long story short: a Sony a7 would be a good choice (and I think I have read of people finding that to work well). A Canon 5D might not work (at least not in a setup with a 50mm lens), although maybe you would have better luck due to the larger sensor than on the APS-C DSLR I tried.
Also check out Coelacanth's posts here about his success using an Olympus OM-D E-M5 mkII, which has a sensor shift high-rez mode and a flip-out LCD.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Yes: the BEOON works best with bodies that can be fitted with an adapter to use Leica M-mount lenses. You don't have to use M-mount lenses, or an M-mount body, but if the body you use can be fitted with them, it's a better pick than any of the DSLR bodies.
I've used the BEOON with a Sony A7, Leica M-P, and Leica SL. The A7 and SL were fitted with M-mount to their native mount adapters and worked very well. I've never tried to use a DSLR body on it ... It most likely would be a real PITA to get to work. I guess you could use a Micro-FourThirds body too, but figuring the right lens to do so and capture 120 format or even FF format negatives would be a bit of fun.
Personally, the draw of using the BEOON is how fast and easy it is to set up and scan 120 film with using the SL body. Anything that means I have to do more work to figure it out and set it up than pulling out the Nikon 9000 film scanner works against using it at all.
G
I've used the BEOON with a Sony A7, Leica M-P, and Leica SL. The A7 and SL were fitted with M-mount to their native mount adapters and worked very well. I've never tried to use a DSLR body on it ... It most likely would be a real PITA to get to work. I guess you could use a Micro-FourThirds body too, but figuring the right lens to do so and capture 120 format or even FF format negatives would be a bit of fun.
Personally, the draw of using the BEOON is how fast and easy it is to set up and scan 120 film with using the SL body. Anything that means I have to do more work to figure it out and set it up than pulling out the Nikon 9000 film scanner works against using it at all.
G
Yes, especially if one is wanting to scan two formats, it's important to quickly change from one config to another without excessive setup time. Assuming that can be accomplished then perfecting the software workflow is next, and that can involve a lot of time. If one is scanning only black and white then learning curve optimizing the workflow is much much less.
Although the BEOON does work I eventually abandoned it in favor of other op tions that gave much better results in far less time.
Although the BEOON does work I eventually abandoned it in favor of other op tions that gave much better results in far less time.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
I had the software (image processing) workflow locked down to my satisfaction long before I obtained the BEOON. I've been both scanning and doing optical capture of negatives, both color and B&W, since 1993...
So the BEOON + Leica SL setup is a huge simplification and time savings compared to getting out, setting up, and running the Nikon Super Coolscan 9000 or Epson V700 just to scan a few negatives. It also takes up about 1/10 the space in my limited storage compared to those big things.
G
So the BEOON + Leica SL setup is a huge simplification and time savings compared to getting out, setting up, and running the Nikon Super Coolscan 9000 or Epson V700 just to scan a few negatives. It also takes up about 1/10 the space in my limited storage compared to those big things.
G