Leica LTM Burning holes in shutter curtains

[landsknechte]

There is plenty said about uncapped lenses burning holes in the shutter curtains of old screwmount Leicas. Realistically speaking, how paranoid do I need to be? Not that I’m planning any sort of an experiment, just curious.

 

[Bill Blackwell]

There is plenty said about uncapped lenses burning holes in the shutter curtains of old screwmount Leicas. Realistically speaking, how paranoid do I need to be? Not that I’m planning any sort of an experiment, just curious.

Be paranoid! Unlike an SLR, there is nothing between the rear of a RF lens and the shutter curtain. Under the right conditions the sun can burn a hole in your RF's shutter curtain in ten seconds or less. Best advice: (1) NEVER set your camera down, unprotected lens facing upward, in direct sunlight and (2) when you're not using your RF camera, put a cap on the lens.

 

[Finder]

Never known it to happen. That does not mean you should leave your camera in the window, but the chance of it randomly happening is very small. Even when taking pictures of the sun, it is most likely not going to be a problem.

Relax.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Realistically speaking, how paranoid do I need to be?

Not very. I've been using Leicas, screw and M, for over a third of a century and it ain't happened to me yet. This may guarantee that it will happen tomorrow, but I do take a lot of pictures -- look at my web site, and today alone I've shot one full roll in my MP, without being on a shooting trip.

Use a lens cap or collapse the lens or stop down to minimum aperture and you should be dead safe (damage at less than f/8 is pretty slow). After a while, too, it becomes second nature always to place your camera with its back to the sun -- a bit like not putting it down with the strap dangling off the table. The only exception to this is a cloudy day when you put the camera down facing a window and leave it there overnight and the sun comes out, but so far I've been lucky.

Cheers,

Roger

 

[landsknechte]

My main concern is keeping the camera safe and not losing a vintage lenscap in between shots out in the field. Collapsing the lens and / or stopping down is a lot easier than walking around for ten or fifteen minutes with my finger holding the lenscap on the lens.

Thanks for the help guys!

 

[vrgard]

I understand what you mean when you express concern about losing a vintage lens cap. My solution to that is to use a modern plastic lens cap and leave the original/vintage metal cap at home in the drawer. Doesn't look as nice but stays on and I don't worry about losing it either.

-Randy

 

[landsknechte]

Modern caps will work for the most part, except for when I've got the camera out at a living history event. I'm anal enough that I won't use a visibly modern cap in that setting. One of these days soon, I'm going to get off my rear and try the black plastic reproductions of the bakelite caps that Cameraquest sells. That's really the best of both worlds, as far as I'm concerned. Of course, I just keep forgetting about it, and I've got an event this weekend...

 

[Solinar]

I use semi generic black plastic caps and keep the vintage Leica caps at home. B&H photo has a huge assortment of sizes. The Schneider caps are pricier and fit with more depth - but I have some Kaiser's as well.

I've been shooting for 30 years with Pentax M42 screw mounts, an Oly OM and now Leicas - All of which have cloth shutter curtains. - So far, no holes, but I do keep the issue on my radar.

I know someone who burned a couple holes in their M6 on the first day of ownership.

 

[laptoprob]

Be very aware. I did a real test some time ago and found instant burning with a f1,2 50mm lens. Focused at close range makes it worst.
Even at f4 burning occurs after a few seconds.

 

[pvdhaar]

I can't say I'm a decades long Leica user, but it hasn't happened to me yet in a couple of years. Perhaps it's because when I'm walking about I'm using the f16 rule all the time, so the aperture matches the light levels, and I'm relatively safe..

 

[laptoprob]

Searching was a bit difficult but here is my burning test thread:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5909

Remember, you are relatively safe walking around stopped down. And perfectly safe capped up.
I haven't done a wide-angle test yet, but I don't think it will be much different. The total amount of energy is concentrated on a smaller point so burning may even be faster.

 

[Michiel Fokkema]

HI,

I personally know two people who had this happen.
I'm very aware of the way I hold my Leica's. I always make sure the lens is pointed down when not shooting.
Cheers,
Michiel Fokkema

 

[Roger Hicks]

Be very aware. I did a real test some time ago and found instant burning with a f1,2 50mm lens. Focused at close range makes it worst.
Even at f4 burning occurs after a few seconds.

Dear Rob,

As I recall, you used Soviet shutter fabric, not Leica. When I tested with black card (yet another step away, I know) I found several seconds with a 35/1.4 at full bore, and by f/11 the image of the sun moved faster than the point could catch.

I have used many lenses up to f/1, and never had a problem, so I can't accept that it's 'instant'. If it were, I'd have burnt countless holes so far. And, I think, Leica would have changed their shutter fabric if it were a common problem.

Of course you'll seldom have the lens at full bore in bright sunlight, unless you've just come out of somewhere dark or you're inside and the sun is coming through a window.

When I get around to it, I'm going to repeat the test with the new trick UV/IR filter in place. It will be interesting to see if there is a difference. Maybe I can persuade Leica to let me have a few square inches of modern shutter fabric...

Cheers,

Roger

 

[laptoprob]

True Roger, I used good ol' FED black shutter cloth. However, I doubt the burning characteristics of Leica cloth will be very different from other black cloths. Black cardboard is very different because shutter cloth is rubberized in some way. Flexible but flammable.
Having f1,2 or bigger in full sunlight is ofcourse useless, but the risk is there anyway. And at f4 the timing was still only a few seconds, iirc.

So caution doesn't hurt.

Digital cameras with fast lenses can also be hurt, I guess.

 

[Roger Hicks]

So caution doesn't hurt.

Dear Rob,

No question about that. I just wanted people not to be TOO alarmed. You know how people take something they read on the internet and get overly excited. What I was getting at, really, was that if it hasn't happened to me in about 38 years, without any but the most basic precautions, it's not really something to worry about all that much. Rather than paranoia, basic precautions suffice.

Cheers,

Roger

 

[wolves3012]

There is plenty said about uncapped lenses burning holes in the shutter curtains of old screwmount Leicas. Realistically speaking, how paranoid do I need to be? Not that I’m planning any sort of an experiment, just curious.

Any cloth-shuttered RF is at risk from this. Although I know it is certainly possible, I honestly think you'd have to keep the camera still, with a reasonably fast lens and pointed with sun in the lens' field of view for a realistic chance. Just generally moving around, walking etc, would be enough to keep the image moving. I don't base this on experience or experimentation, just common sense. I do tend to collapse or cap the lens on sunny days myself, there's no harm in avoiding the possibility, after all!