Buyer beware of M8

[jaapv]

I wonder what they have been doing with their camera's I was out in the mountains for three weeks this winter, temperatures ranging from -15 centigrade to +5, weather from brilliant sun, through driving rain to heavy snow, and my M8's never even had a hiccup, despite being used continuously.

 

[Avotius]

Total foolishness, read this: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34986

Digital cameras dont like cold wet weather. I know this very well. The just dont function well in it. Every single digital slr taken on that trip died, but came back to life later. Doesn't seem that the m8 was having problems from the cold in this article but then again I highly doubt anyone was doing telephoto shots with it in the rain either.

It is curious though why no one there had a film backup like a 1v or something, or at least he didnt mention it. Either way I bet shooting film out there would have been a pain in the ass too with all the wet and opening the backs of the cameras.

I seem to recall a NG article about the artic foxes. On the NG website the guy was talking about how his eos 1 series camera was breaking the film off in his camera from the cold and fast movement. He switched over to the more manual Leica R9 and did the shots. They came out great too, wonder how he coped with it.

http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0410/feature4/?fs=www7.nationalgeographic.com Here is the article. Click on the multimedia thing on the side.

 

[jaapv]

Like trying to drive Paris-Dakar in a Ferrari.....

 

[jlw]

Note that these guys weren't exactly schussing across the Antarctic behind a sledge, like the Scot Expedition. They were on a cruise ship. For all we know, most of the equipment failures could have been caused by falling off a bar stool.

I'm not saying they were -- only that it's risky to try to generalize statistics when you don't have all the background info.

 

[Kim Coxon]

Having read and re-read the article, I think it is perhaps foolish to draw any specific brand/camera conclusions from. There certainly isn't much evidence for sensationalist headings - unless of course, you are trying to troll. 😉

What I draw from this is that a group of photogs took a group of "unprepared" cameras into extreme conditions and quite a few had problems. I remember, in the days before digital, reading an srticle about photography in such conditions. The overiding advice was that the cameras should be "prepared" for such conditions. It suggested sending the camera to the manufacturer to be stripped and re-lubed with a different grade of lubricants suitable for such cold weather. In much the same way that cars are winterised in places like Canada and northern Norway with heaters and thinner lubes in the winter.

I rather suspect that without precautions, older mechanical "pro" cameras would have had problems as did quite a few of the "pro" Canons. Now if I really wanted to stir things up, I could say that the humble Pentax K10D had a 100% record so that must be the best camera and look at the saving and the great glass you can get for it. 😉 😀 🙄

Kim

 

[jaapv]

Note that these guys weren't exactly schussing across the Antarctic behind a sledge, like the Scot Expedition. They were on a cruise ship. For all we know, most of the equipment failures could have been caused by falling off a bar stool.

I'm not saying they were -- only that it's risky to try to generalize statistics when you don't have all the background info.

And M8's DON'T get damaged by their owner falling off bar stools - as I have demonstrated in real life.

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

Like trying to drive Paris-Dakar in a Ferrari.....

ROFL

Those rugged Yugos are far superior to them Ferraris in those "real-life" conditions, you know? 😉

 

[ywenz]

I wonder what they have been doing with their camera's

Interesting that this questions should come up. Do you think that if someone reported the M8 worked flawlessly on a recent trip, people would question "I wonder how much he babyed the camera?". I wouldn't.

I used the M8 during a wet 15 degree F night in Nashville recently
the camera worked perfectly & I was surprised that the battery remained at full charge despite my taking about 40 shots

No offense.. but that bar you set is not very high.


I bet some of those people there wished they had a nice and reliable M6 + Velvia with them when the digital version broke.

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

Four failed Leica M8's in an Arctic expedition.

What nobody's mentioning is the failed, all-weather sealed, rugged, Canon DSLRs, and the impeccable logic of bringing a digital camera to a subfreezing environment.

I'll go test my silver butter knife against some glass I need to cut now...

 

[ywenz]

What nobody's mentioning is the failed, all-weather sealed, rugged, Canon DSLRs

To quote the article:
"There were four people abourd who carried Leica M8's" "Two of the other M8 users had more serious problems."

"About 85% of the trip's members were shooting with Canon gear, mostly 1Ds MKII. " "In all, 90 minutes of wet shooting produced six 1Ds MKII cameras which stopped working for one reason or another. Three of them recovered after a night of drying out."

"2 out of 4" VS "6(or 3) out of ~85% of 50 + backup units."
Statistics would say that I should take my chance with Canon gear in that type of environment.

 

[jlw]

Like trying to drive Paris-Dakar in a Ferrari.....

Okay, this isn't quite as rugged as Paris-Dakar, but Ferrari actually made a World Rally Championship car based on the 348, and most likely it would have been competitive if they had put any development behind it.

The Porsche 959, known primarily for track success, actually was originally developed as a WRC car.

 

[spersky]

Hello,

I re-read the article. My facts where wrong. The Leica M8 had a 50% failure rate taken from a very small sample of 4, with one person having a frozen lens issue whcih is not an M8 failure.

That is still a very dissappointing number of failures. Furthermore, LL is read by quite a few people and it would seem to be a PR nightmare for Leica. I think it would be safe to say that some caution should be exercised before spending 5k on a camera where reliability is still very much in question.

 

[IGMeanwell]

What nobody's mentioning is the failed, all-weather sealed, rugged, Canon DSLRs, and the impeccable logic of bringing a digital camera to a subfreezing environment.

I'll go test my silver butter knife against some glass I need to cut now...

But he did mention those who brought the Nikons along with no reported problems ... not that it means anything Canon probably with the law of averages had to have at least a couple problems

 

[Sailor Ted]

SEVERAL cameras failed due to the fact it was COLD outside and WARM inside the ship. You can't very well leave your camera in a cold but dry location on a PUBLIC cruse ship due to THEFT so in they went with predictable results- so much for the Canon's weather sealing. The interesting point is that the OP grossly overstated the Leica failure and did not mention the Canon failures- in fact he intimated just the opposite. This of course is only interesting until you research the OP's past posting history. This post was put forth as typical flame bait and is resulting in the typical flame war.

PS. One M8 (perhaps two) were brand-new and this camera does suffer from EFR (early failure rate). Had these cameras been pre-tested for an initial 1000 exposures I am certain they would have shown their issues, been replaced by Leica, and then all the M8's would have performed as well as the M8 that was shot in all types of weather with no ill effect, as has been my experience with my M8.

 

[raid]

It seems to me that the M8 forum is better served if M8 owners and users just chat about the good and bad things they observe in this camera and stop talking about the cost and so on. It is important for non-M8 users to read about opinions coming from both ends of the spectrum.

Raid

 

[rsl]

Anyone who takes a camera on a very cold weather cruise without also taking a tightly sealable plastic bag to put the camera in before going back inside deserves what he gets -- a failed camera full of condensation. As I said on a different thread, it's not rocket science. It's more like high school physics. Even a fully sealed Nikon can fail if you do that to it. You can seal the camera against rain, but you can't seal it against condensation.

 

[dcsang]

ya know what's a riot about just about every single solitary M8 thread?

There's always someone who's being a detractor or *ahem* "troll" and then there's always Ted and Jaap flying in like Batman and Robin to rescue the M8 😀

Let's face the facts.. the M8 does NOT need anyone rescuing it. It's a capable rangefinder camera, and, when used properly, will produce incredibly awesome images.

I'm happy to have seen images produced with the M8 and I hope that I can get to fondle one soon during my trip to Vegas but I wonder if any of the detractors have ever held the camera or used it or are all the claims of "bad M8.. BAD DOG!!" just based on conjecture?

Gee whiz.. I'm starting to sound like I'm Bat Girl or something.. 😀

Frustratedly Reading Silly M8 Posts,
Dave

 

[Sailor Ted]

Gee whiz.. I'm starting to sound like I'm Bat Girl or something.. 😀

Dave,
Your cape and bat utility belt are on order and after testing will be forwarded to you.

ST 😛

 

[kbg32]

Hello,

I re-read the article. My facts where wrong. The Leica M8 had a 50% failure rate taken from a very small sample of 4, with one person having a frozen lens issue whcih is not an M8 failure.

That is still a very dissappointing number of failures. Furthermore, LL is read by quite a few people and it would seem to be a PR nightmare for Leica. I think it would be safe to say that some caution should be exercised before spending 5k on a camera where reliability is still very much in question.

I think it is safe to say, that one should have the facts straight before posting any negative, opinionated messages. If you want attention, strip down naked and jump into traffic. You'll have all the attention you'll ever want. 😱

 

[jaapv]

ya know what's a riot about just about every single solitary M8 thread?

There's always someone who's being a detractor or *ahem* "troll" and then there's always Ted and Jaap flying in like Batman and Robin to rescue the M8 😀
Frustratedly Reading Silly M8 Posts,
Dave

Those tights are killing me....