MikeL
Go Fish
Jeff, what size prints are you noticing too much grain? Are you making your judgements on a computer monitor?
JNewell
Leica M Recidivist
It's a question of tasks and tools. If your tasks don't reqire a Leica M, or at least don't make it a reasonable choice for what you're doing, it will inevitably disappoint - probably on many fronts.
I'd sit down and ask what you want to do with your equipment. If there isn't at least a reasonable overlap with the strengths of the M system, sell it now.
I'd sit down and ask what you want to do with your equipment. If there isn't at least a reasonable overlap with the strengths of the M system, sell it now.
jplomley
Established
jplomley
Established
jplomley
Established
Print sizes from my Mamiya are 20x25 and the negs are scanned on either a Creo iQ3 or Cezanne Elite.
Still experimenting with 35mm in terms of how large I can go. Certainly scanning at lower resolution de-emphasizes the grain (2400 ppi) and uprezzing with GF's works well. I think I can get away with 16x24 with 35mm using this routine. Scanning at 4000 ppi resolves the grain far too much so that you are no longer up-rezzing a clean image. In my experience, one is far better of to scan at lower resolution so that you are up-rezzing a cleaner file. I might try oil mounting 35mm on a the Cezanne or iQ3 flatbed and scan at the native resolution (true 5500 ppi); the fluid mounting should curtail grain very nicely. On 6x7 and 4x5, this really does not need to be done. Dry scanning works just fine in these larger formats.
Still experimenting with 35mm in terms of how large I can go. Certainly scanning at lower resolution de-emphasizes the grain (2400 ppi) and uprezzing with GF's works well. I think I can get away with 16x24 with 35mm using this routine. Scanning at 4000 ppi resolves the grain far too much so that you are no longer up-rezzing a clean image. In my experience, one is far better of to scan at lower resolution so that you are up-rezzing a cleaner file. I might try oil mounting 35mm on a the Cezanne or iQ3 flatbed and scan at the native resolution (true 5500 ppi); the fluid mounting should curtail grain very nicely. On 6x7 and 4x5, this really does not need to be done. Dry scanning works just fine in these larger formats.
jplomley
Established
And finally, one from the evil DSLR
Canon 1Ds
Canon 35/1.4
ISO 1250
1/12th f/1.4
I've titled this image, The Absorption of Youth.
As an aside, I went and demoed the new Nikon D300 and 14-24/2.8 I must say, this is one stellar combination for street work. Nikon really got it right on this zoom lens. Blows the Canon 16-35/2.8 II right out of the water.
Canon 1Ds
Canon 35/1.4
ISO 1250
1/12th f/1.4
I've titled this image, The Absorption of Youth.
As an aside, I went and demoed the new Nikon D300 and 14-24/2.8 I must say, this is one stellar combination for street work. Nikon really got it right on this zoom lens. Blows the Canon 16-35/2.8 II right out of the water.
Attachments
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Now that all serious responses have been made and found wanting 
there remains just one alternative: This poster needs an M8 and Noctilux....
there remains just one alternative: This poster needs an M8 and Noctilux....jplomley
Established
OMG! My wife would kill me! I can hear it now, Did'nt you just buy a Leica? Why do you need another one.....
Frank Petronio
Well-known
Why do you print so large? Do you have a gallery selling this stuff or ?
jplomley
Established
Frank, good question. I am seeking gallery representation in Montreal and I find the larger images have a greater impact. As well, I feel it is a it is a crime to shoot the likes of the Mamiya 7 and Arca Swiss, only to enlarge it to 11 x X. I want people to move into the image, to become a part of it, and I feel this is difficult with small print sizes.
Avotius
Some guy
Well if I were you I could first not use the 25mm for any sort of gallery stuff, use it for personal use. Find another use or something for it besides printing large. I agree, most people respond better to the bigger prints, having done many many many exhibitions its true, your typical person responds to the bigger is better ideal. That said 35mm negative properly taken care of can be enlarged to 24 inches, I do it all the time. The image lacks the pop of a medium format shot of course, but truthfully, I found little difference in 24 inch prints from my Bessa/Zeiss Planar 50mm and Canon 5D/Canon 50mm shots. If that sways you to one side or the other is up to you. The Canon shots had tighter grain (both shot about the same speed) but the Zeiss shots are a lot nicer to look at!
jplomley
Established
Avotius,
I agree 35mm can be blown large, but the trick is a pro-level scanner like an Aztek Drum or Cezanne Elite/Creo iQSmart3 flatbed, and the neg must be be oil mounted (which is a given for a drum scan, and optional for a flatbed). As long as the scan resolution is set so as not to resolve grain (~ 2000 - 2400 ppi), then you can up-rez a a very clean input to a very clean output, but forget bicubic smoother. Genuine Fractals is a much much better program.
Thanks for the feedback re: the 5D. I was considering this option until the D300 and 14-24 hit the newstands.....
I agree 35mm can be blown large, but the trick is a pro-level scanner like an Aztek Drum or Cezanne Elite/Creo iQSmart3 flatbed, and the neg must be be oil mounted (which is a given for a drum scan, and optional for a flatbed). As long as the scan resolution is set so as not to resolve grain (~ 2000 - 2400 ppi), then you can up-rez a a very clean input to a very clean output, but forget bicubic smoother. Genuine Fractals is a much much better program.
Thanks for the feedback re: the 5D. I was considering this option until the D300 and 14-24 hit the newstands.....
jplomley
Established
Larry, the Leica is a sheer joy to handle and operate. I have been able to achieve images with a unique look that would have been difficult to acquire with any other camera system. And as Avotius also notes, I too am exceptionally pleased with the Zeiss lens quality, and I have very high standards for optics (hence the Mamiya 7 lens and only Rodenstock and Schneider glass for the Arca Swiss).
I will be sure to source the book you reference.
As an aside, I went to Queens U for graduate school in Chemistry back in 93. A great university and a great city. Would be nice to get back there with the Leica
I will be sure to source the book you reference.
As an aside, I went to Queens U for graduate school in Chemistry back in 93. A great university and a great city. Would be nice to get back there with the Leica
jplomley
Established
Colin,
Forgot to mention that I browsed your website this morning. Very nice images indeed. Man you are in a great location for streetwork. Need anyone to haul some of your kit around I think I could convince my wife to do that for you while we shoot
Forgot to mention that I browsed your website this morning. Very nice images indeed. Man you are in a great location for streetwork. Need anyone to haul some of your kit around
I think I could convince my wife to do that for you while we shoot JNewell
Leica M Recidivist
That's your answer. If the iimages please you, the Leica is indeed a unique tool. Keep it.
Andrew Sowerby
Well-known
Honus said:
Agreed! Grain is usually pleasing. Especially when viewing prints in real life, rather than with one's nose 6" from a computer screen. I don't think that the subway picture you posed earlier suffered from low "image quality". The graininess enhanced the picture, IMO. Keep the Leica and continue having fun with it.
jplomley
Established
Andrew, agreed. I've been playing around this morning with scanning some more Delta 3200 and Neopan 1600 and I think it is a matter of identifying when the grain is appropriate. Certainly for the subway images, it is all about the grit of being underground. Above ground, I would switch to the Mamiya 7 amd TMY-2. However, for doing street work at night, I thik this is where grain could once again be used to convey a mood
I can always de-emphasize grain by printing on a textured paper (e.g. Hahnemuhle William Turner), or emphasize it further by printing on something like Harman Gloss FB Al, my current favorite for B&W....choices, choices.
I can always de-emphasize grain by printing on a textured paper (e.g. Hahnemuhle William Turner), or emphasize it further by printing on something like Harman Gloss FB Al, my current favorite for B&W....choices, choices.