River Dog
Always looking
In my search for bargains in the classifieds (a fertile hunting ground for me), I am going to look at a Bessa II in apparently 'very good condition' this week but I know next to nothing about them. The seller is less than knowledgeable. This is the only description I have to go on "Bessa II. Color Skopar 1:3.5/105. Compur Rapid."
He is cagey about price but my budget is up to £200 ($330) - for no good reason other than that is all I have spare this month.
Three questions:
Thanks so much in advance, for your advice
He is cagey about price but my budget is up to £200 ($330) - for no good reason other than that is all I have spare this month.
Three questions:
- Is the Bessa II a decent choice for a 6x9 folder?
- What would be a great price for such a camera in working condition?
- What should I be looking for when checking it out?
Thanks so much in advance, for your advice
sniki
Well-known
At the following link there is a very detailed check list and a lot of informations about Bessa II choice; unfortunately is in Italian...
;-)
http://www.scattineltempo.it/Bessa due.htm
;-)
http://www.scattineltempo.it/Bessa due.htm
Vickko
Veteran
The Bessa II is my favourite 6x9 cm camera. It is a gem, and the Color Skopar is a fine lens.
But, it is a folder, and you must check for light leaks at the folding corners of the bellows. They are a very old camera.
The other weakness with this camera is that the lens bed wasn't engineered to be that strong, and many don't track straight on their rails. This can be fixed, much easier than fixing bellows leaks.
You should also check out the focus alignment - make sure it focuses at infinity.
And it is a leaf shutter - make sure it runs at all speeds, especially the slow speed escapement.
$330 is awfully cheap for a good one.
There should be a fair bit of information on the Bessa II on the internet; it is a very good bellows camera, with a good reputation.
Vick
But, it is a folder, and you must check for light leaks at the folding corners of the bellows. They are a very old camera.
The other weakness with this camera is that the lens bed wasn't engineered to be that strong, and many don't track straight on their rails. This can be fixed, much easier than fixing bellows leaks.
You should also check out the focus alignment - make sure it focuses at infinity.
And it is a leaf shutter - make sure it runs at all speeds, especially the slow speed escapement.
$330 is awfully cheap for a good one.
There should be a fair bit of information on the Bessa II on the internet; it is a very good bellows camera, with a good reputation.
Vick
imush
Well-known
1. Bessa II is probably the king of 6x9 folders.
2. $500+, depending on the lens and shutter.
3. Lens, bellows, shutter. All of these may need work.
Here is some more info
http://www.certo6.com/cameras/voigtlaender-bessa
2. $500+, depending on the lens and shutter.
3. Lens, bellows, shutter. All of these may need work.
Here is some more info
http://www.certo6.com/cameras/voigtlaender-bessa
Vickko
Veteran
Check ebay for street pricing. There are lots on now.
This one is from Alex; I do trust him:
Item number: 290560576809
Vick
This one is from Alex; I do trust him:
Item number: 290560576809
Vick
River Dog
Always looking
Thanks for the replies, I can do the shutter by ear (more or less) but how do I check light leaks in the bellows corners... with a torch?
Brian Legge
Veteran
A torch/flashlight can catch major leaks but it is hard to be sure without running a roll through it on a bright day.
If it looks good and you pass on the camera, I'm sure others here would be interested. that is a great price if the condition is good.
If it looks good and you pass on the camera, I'm sure others here would be interested.
that is a great price if the condition is good.River Dog
Always looking
A torch/flashlight can catch major leaks but it is hard to be sure without running a roll through it on a bright day.
If it looks good and you pass on the camera, I'm sure others here would be interested.
Sure, if I pass because it is not so good for me - I am not into too much repairing - I will let you have a go
kuzano
Veteran
EXCELLENT price.. which raises red flags....
EXCELLENT price.. which raises red flags....
I watch these, among others, on eBay regularly...
A very good user Bessa II needing no immediate attention and with that lens would easily bring $600 to $700 (or more) on eBay. A good user condition camera that is. The same camera with a Heliar lens in good user condition would easily break $1000 and have sold recently for $1500 to 1800. Same camera with the Apo Lanthar (rare) lens have been seeing going for many thousands.
Add pristine condition to any of those and double the price
You're hunting in high stakes territory and there are many other folders out there that will render equal images for much less money. The Bessa II's presently are "cult" items.
Zeiss Ikons for 6X9 with Tessar lenses are much sturdier for less money, as will as good image takers.
If this is your first folder... do some research. Hold out for a good one, as you are at the mercy of very few people on CLA's and restorations. read here big money.
Try to get a good user needing no service.
OTOH, if you can really get this camera for near your budget and it focuses well with the rangefinder and the shutter speeds are near accurate, and if the bellows is light tight...dark room, flashlight playing on the bellows outside while looking in the back, and playing on the inside while looking from the front. no leaks. then this camera is a VERY good buy. Also clean optics with no fungus, coating marks etc.
EXCELLENT price.. which raises red flags....
I watch these, among others, on eBay regularly...
A very good user Bessa II needing no immediate attention and with that lens would easily bring $600 to $700 (or more) on eBay. A good user condition camera that is. The same camera with a Heliar lens in good user condition would easily break $1000 and have sold recently for $1500 to 1800. Same camera with the Apo Lanthar (rare) lens have been seeing going for many thousands.
Add pristine condition to any of those and double the price
You're hunting in high stakes territory and there are many other folders out there that will render equal images for much less money. The Bessa II's presently are "cult" items.
Zeiss Ikons for 6X9 with Tessar lenses are much sturdier for less money, as will as good image takers.
If this is your first folder... do some research. Hold out for a good one, as you are at the mercy of very few people on CLA's and restorations. read here big money.
Try to get a good user needing no service.
OTOH, if you can really get this camera for near your budget and it focuses well with the rangefinder and the shutter speeds are near accurate, and if the bellows is light tight...dark room, flashlight playing on the bellows outside while looking in the back, and playing on the inside while looking from the front. no leaks. then this camera is a VERY good buy. Also clean optics with no fungus, coating marks etc.
River Dog
Always looking
Thanks for the very informative response, I will let you know how it turns out. With some luck I may be able to post my first 6x9 images here by the weekend.
River Dog
Always looking
Well, I got it for £200 ($330) plus a little more for an old Ikonta and a cute Bolex 8mm (still has film in it) - I'll use the Bolex for display purposes.
The Bessa has not been used since 1961, so it is in great condition though it has a cold shoe that I don't think should be there. It is going to need a CLA but the focus and shutter are already loosening up with some use.
I put a couple of rolls through this evening without doing anything to it, just for fun and you can see the results in this thread
Thanks for your advice. So far, I rather like it.
The Bessa has not been used since 1961, so it is in great condition though it has a cold shoe that I don't think should be there. It is going to need a CLA but the focus and shutter are already loosening up with some use.
I put a couple of rolls through this evening without doing anything to it, just for fun and you can see the results in this thread
Thanks for your advice. So far, I rather like it.
rsosa
Established
looking for service/repair guide or instructions for this camera. today got one myself and would like to clean the VF/RF
any clues?
thx
rodrigo
any clues?
thx
rodrigo
Ken Smith
Why yes Ma'am - it folds
Service or repair manual I have not seen. You can get PDF version of the manual at Mike Butkus' site: http://www.butkus.org/chinon/ Go to the Voigtlander page and you will find several versions of the user manual.
Gaining access to the RF/VF is a pain in the keister but do-able. Once clean the VF/RF gives a nice view. Not as bright as the Bessa R or Canon 7 rangefinders, but very usable in low light.
Gaining access to the RF/VF is a pain in the keister but do-able. Once clean the VF/RF gives a nice view. Not as bright as the Bessa R or Canon 7 rangefinders, but very usable in low light.
Ken Smith
Why yes Ma'am - it folds
Bessa II top pop
Bessa II top pop
1. Focus camera to infinity and leave it there and the front closed for the following steps. Doing this will make it easier to re-assemble the camera without having to adjust for infinity.
2. Open back. Inside, left side top, locate the two small slotted screws that hold the top spool support in place. This spool support covers the slotted screw that must be removed to begin to take the left (focusing) knob off. Remove them and the thin black alum spool support.
3. This covered slotted screw holds the focusing distance scale in place. Loosen it and screw it most of the way out. Don’t unscrew it completely yet, because you will need to use it to push the distance scale up. The distance scale post has a cross pin just under the distance plate that fits tightly in to a slotted post. Once you pop the distance scale up by pushing on the loosed screw in the film chamber, loosen its retaining screw completely and remove the distance scale plate.
4. Underneath the distance plate is two bright slotted screws that hold the focusing knob in place. These will need to come off to remove the focusing knob. This is why I started this procedure with having the camera focused to infinity. If the camera is left at infinity, when you replace this knob, it should be easy to replace at infinity.
5. After the focusing knob is removed, remove the tall headed screw on the left side of cover. Remember that you took the tall headed cover screw from the left side. The reason the screw is tall is that it acts as the focusing stop for Minimum and Infinity.
6. Remove the screw holding the film advance knob in place. Remove film advance knob.
7. There is a slotted big brass screw that holds an elongated oval cover in place over the film advance gears. Remove this screw.
8. Under the left side of the film advance knob, is the last screw for removal. Remove this final screw and the top should lift off.
For safe keeping, once the top is off, I would screw all removed screws back into their locations. This precludes misplacing them. Also, these screws are made of soft metal, it is easy to scar/deform their slots. If any of the screws are hard to remove, I would give them a soaking of denatured alcohol or acetone via a Q-tip. Be careful with the acetone and don’t over do it! Acetone does disastrous things to plastics, camera covers, etc. Sometimes these screws were put in place and a thin coat of shellac applied to keep them from loosening.
My viewfinder was pretty cruddy and dim to see through. After I cleaned all the optical surfaces with denatured alcohol and a Q-tip it’s now nicely bright.
Bessa II top pop
1. Focus camera to infinity and leave it there and the front closed for the following steps. Doing this will make it easier to re-assemble the camera without having to adjust for infinity.
2. Open back. Inside, left side top, locate the two small slotted screws that hold the top spool support in place. This spool support covers the slotted screw that must be removed to begin to take the left (focusing) knob off. Remove them and the thin black alum spool support.
3. This covered slotted screw holds the focusing distance scale in place. Loosen it and screw it most of the way out. Don’t unscrew it completely yet, because you will need to use it to push the distance scale up. The distance scale post has a cross pin just under the distance plate that fits tightly in to a slotted post. Once you pop the distance scale up by pushing on the loosed screw in the film chamber, loosen its retaining screw completely and remove the distance scale plate.
4. Underneath the distance plate is two bright slotted screws that hold the focusing knob in place. These will need to come off to remove the focusing knob. This is why I started this procedure with having the camera focused to infinity. If the camera is left at infinity, when you replace this knob, it should be easy to replace at infinity.
5. After the focusing knob is removed, remove the tall headed screw on the left side of cover. Remember that you took the tall headed cover screw from the left side. The reason the screw is tall is that it acts as the focusing stop for Minimum and Infinity.
6. Remove the screw holding the film advance knob in place. Remove film advance knob.
7. There is a slotted big brass screw that holds an elongated oval cover in place over the film advance gears. Remove this screw.
8. Under the left side of the film advance knob, is the last screw for removal. Remove this final screw and the top should lift off.
For safe keeping, once the top is off, I would screw all removed screws back into their locations. This precludes misplacing them. Also, these screws are made of soft metal, it is easy to scar/deform their slots. If any of the screws are hard to remove, I would give them a soaking of denatured alcohol or acetone via a Q-tip. Be careful with the acetone and don’t over do it! Acetone does disastrous things to plastics, camera covers, etc. Sometimes these screws were put in place and a thin coat of shellac applied to keep them from loosening.
My viewfinder was pretty cruddy and dim to see through. After I cleaned all the optical surfaces with denatured alcohol and a Q-tip it’s now nicely bright.
rsosa
Established
Big thanks Ken!!! will try do it this saturday
hopefully first roll is on saturday too!!
will try document it with pics
cheers
Rodrigo
hopefully first roll is on saturday too!!
will try document it with pics
cheers
Rodrigo
rsosa
Established
So... Big thanks to you Ken, without your guide I had no Idea were to start.
wow, this camera was a headache to dismantle, but because of my ignorance.
I though, yeah... lets do it. Never thought I would have ended disassembling the synchro-compur (ouch!!, that was a headache)
when cleaning the lens (had some fungus) some liquid went into the leafs of the shutter. this was the beginning of the short nightmare. The shutter got stuck. I had to disassemble the thing.
when disassembled the synchro the leafs fell down like in autumn, a mix of cold/hot
sensation ran through my body, I thought, I've messed a completely working camera
after an hour or so managed to assembly the thing, the good thing was I could lubricate the synchro and now is much more smoother, really butter.
After assembling the damn swiss watch I realized the lens that sits next to the bellows came out without dismantling everything and no need for all the headache. You just unscrew it, very simple
Now the good news, the fungus did not etched the glass, it is as new as day 1, it was rewarding and the experience was entertaining (only because it had a happy ending)
After the lens was done, I went to clean the RF/VF, this cameras are made TIGHT
screws are tight, fittings are tight, really well made.
All the information above was vital for the disassembling, I must add that it is needed to remove 2 really tiny screws in the top plate where the engravings are, the engraved plate comes out and there is 1 more screw underneath that needs to be removed.
One good thing is that under that plate you can adjust vertical and horizontal alignment, no need to dismantle everything.
After cleaning the delicate RF mechanism and all windows etc, the VF and RF patch are MUCH more clearer, it really made the camera breath again.
Now its late in the evening in the cold south, just loaded it with velvia 50, tomorrow is shooting day, hopes everything comes out just fine
thanks again
Rodrigo
wow, this camera was a headache to dismantle, but because of my ignorance.
I though, yeah... lets do it. Never thought I would have ended disassembling the synchro-compur (ouch!!, that was a headache)
when cleaning the lens (had some fungus) some liquid went into the leafs of the shutter. this was the beginning of the short nightmare. The shutter got stuck. I had to disassemble the thing.
when disassembled the synchro the leafs fell down like in autumn, a mix of cold/hot
sensation ran through my body, I thought, I've messed a completely working camera
after an hour or so managed to assembly the thing, the good thing was I could lubricate the synchro and now is much more smoother, really butter.
After assembling the damn swiss watch I realized the lens that sits next to the bellows came out without dismantling everything and no need for all the headache. You just unscrew it, very simple
Now the good news, the fungus did not etched the glass
, it is as new as day 1, it was rewarding and the experience was entertaining (only because it had a happy ending)After the lens was done, I went to clean the RF/VF, this cameras are made TIGHT
screws are tight, fittings are tight, really well made.
All the information above was vital for the disassembling, I must add that it is needed to remove 2 really tiny screws in the top plate where the engravings are, the engraved plate comes out and there is 1 more screw underneath that needs to be removed.
One good thing is that under that plate you can adjust vertical and horizontal alignment, no need to dismantle everything.
After cleaning the delicate RF mechanism and all windows etc, the VF and RF patch are MUCH more clearer, it really made the camera breath again.
Now its late in the evening in the cold south, just loaded it with velvia 50, tomorrow is shooting day, hopes everything comes out just fine
thanks again
Rodrigo
Ken Smith
Why yes Ma'am - it folds
Glad to be of help. It looks rather daunting at first. Which variation do you have have? I have the version without a flash shoe and both RF/VF windows are square. The top cover on my camera comes off without having to remove the name plate covering access to the RF adjustments. Which is why I omitted removing those screws.
To be one the safe side, I would check infinity with a piece of frosted glass and a loupe or the like.