Samuel D
Established
Hello, all.
I used a Leica M6 in the dim and distant past, and greatly enjoyed it. I could never afford a Leica of my own, though.
I still can’t afford one, but I’m tempted to acquire an M8 by whatever means necessary. My great fear is striving mightily to buy one, only to have it die in three months of some well-known defect.
So then, what do I need to know about buying a used M8 or M8.2? Which of the two, for a start? Are there serial numbers to be sought or avoided? What are the realistic chances of a used M8 still working in two, three, or four years? And if it goes wrong, can Leica fix it for a reasonable price?
I presume none of these cameras still have warranty coverage, but if I’m wrong about that, and if Leica lets sellers transfer the warranty to new owners, please let me know.
I live in France, in case that matters. Any tips on where to look for used Leicas? Online shops, eBay, other websites, shops in or around Paris – all are possibilities for me, but which is best?
Thanks very much. It’s hard to know where to start.
Samuel
I used a Leica M6 in the dim and distant past, and greatly enjoyed it. I could never afford a Leica of my own, though.
I still can’t afford one, but I’m tempted to acquire an M8 by whatever means necessary. My great fear is striving mightily to buy one, only to have it die in three months of some well-known defect.
So then, what do I need to know about buying a used M8 or M8.2? Which of the two, for a start? Are there serial numbers to be sought or avoided? What are the realistic chances of a used M8 still working in two, three, or four years? And if it goes wrong, can Leica fix it for a reasonable price?
I presume none of these cameras still have warranty coverage, but if I’m wrong about that, and if Leica lets sellers transfer the warranty to new owners, please let me know.
I live in France, in case that matters. Any tips on where to look for used Leicas? Online shops, eBay, other websites, shops in or around Paris – all are possibilities for me, but which is best?
Thanks very much. It’s hard to know where to start.
Samuel
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
I have a friend in Jersey City, NJ, USA who has one for sale quite inexpensively. Well under $2000 USD. Closer to $1000 I think. The camera has a new shutter, works just fine but needs a tiny RF alignment which is easily done with the right tool.
I don't know how customs would affect your price as it is a used camera.
Phil Forrest
I don't know how customs would affect your price as it is a used camera.
Phil Forrest
Samuel D
Established
Thanks for the idea/offer, Phil. I don’t think digital cameras attract import duties, but I’d certainly get hit with VAT (about 20 %). Insured shipping would probably not be cheap either, and I’d pay VAT on that too.
It might still work out to be a good price, but I must first decide whether to definitely buy a Leica, if so which model, and whether buying abroad would limit my repair options with Leica in Europe should anything go wrong.
It might still work out to be a good price, but I must first decide whether to definitely buy a Leica, if so which model, and whether buying abroad would limit my repair options with Leica in Europe should anything go wrong.
filmtwit
Desperate but not serious
I would pass on a M8 or 8.2 as the sensor is pretty dang old as a whole.
You'd be much better off with more modern fuji and it should costs less then M8 at this time too.
You'd be much better off with more modern fuji and it should costs less then M8 at this time too.
hepcat
Former PH, USN
Samuel, Many of us here are paupers. You're not alone. I spent $2k on an M8 about a year ago. There are some issues, but nothing that would stop me from buying another. The "coffee stain" on some of the LCDs affects viewing a little, but isn't a big deal. All of the parts (to my knowledge) are still available except for the LCD screen. That's not available because there weren't enough of them produced to account for regular attrition plus those that needed to be replaced because of the discoloration. If your LCD dies, you have a functioning camera that you can't play back images on. I suppose that setting the ISO might be problematic as well, however I seldom change that anyway.
Other than that, they're a solid camera. There's not much difference in reliability between the M8 and M8.2. The M8.2 gives a shutter that has a 1/4000 top speed instead of 1/8000 but is reputed to be some quieter, a sapphire glass back and black paint. My M8 is one of the last produced and is also in black paint.
If you want one, buy one and shoot away.
On edit: The Fuji is what drove me to buy the M8 originally. The operation of the Fuji is nothing like an M Body Leica except for the general form factor is similar.
Other than that, they're a solid camera. There's not much difference in reliability between the M8 and M8.2. The M8.2 gives a shutter that has a 1/4000 top speed instead of 1/8000 but is reputed to be some quieter, a sapphire glass back and black paint. My M8 is one of the last produced and is also in black paint.
If you want one, buy one and shoot away.
On edit: The Fuji is what drove me to buy the M8 originally. The operation of the Fuji is nothing like an M Body Leica except for the general form factor is similar.
thegman
Veteran
Stating the obvious here, but if you really liked the M6, why not get an M6?
Can be had even cheaper than an M8, does not need the filters, and is full frame. Don't need to worry too much about sudden electronic failure either.
Can be had even cheaper than an M8, does not need the filters, and is full frame. Don't need to worry too much about sudden electronic failure either.
peterm1
Veteran
I have a friendly camera store that will allow me to pay off equipment over a prolonged period of time as I am a regular and they know me well and know that I will keep coming back to buy more stuff if they do this. Of course this means I do not have the equipment in my hands for a long time (till its been paid for) but thats the price one pays for buying a reasonably expensive camera when you have modest means. With me its a meanss of controlling my impulses - if I did pay cash the chances are I would be tempted to buy something else shortly after. Forcing myself to "suffer" makes me approeciate my purchase. In the time I am paing off the purchase, I have also usually sold some of my own camera kit to help fund the purchase. In fact this is what I did to buy my M8 a couple of years back. This keeps my overall investment in gear more modest.
You might try exploring this kind of option. In terms of whether the M8 is worth it. Yes and no - its really a personal thing. I suppose I do not really regret my purchase (like you I was a Leica film shooter) but I wonder if I would do it again. The problem with digital equipment is that technology changes. Sometimes this does not matter. But in the case of the M8 it does to some extent as the sensor is not as good as the latest offerings from all sorts of manufacturers including Leica. But then thats the same as my Nikon D200 - its sensor is noisy and a little "primitive" by comparison with today's offerings.
BTW with an M8 I think I would be inclined to prefer buying from a reputabel store with a solid reurns policy. Some cameras do have issues and its necessary to have a fallback. You pay a bit more up front maybe but in this case I think tis worth it. Buying on line is a gamble unless you have absolute faith in the seller and in the quality fo the merchandise.
You might try exploring this kind of option. In terms of whether the M8 is worth it. Yes and no - its really a personal thing. I suppose I do not really regret my purchase (like you I was a Leica film shooter) but I wonder if I would do it again. The problem with digital equipment is that technology changes. Sometimes this does not matter. But in the case of the M8 it does to some extent as the sensor is not as good as the latest offerings from all sorts of manufacturers including Leica. But then thats the same as my Nikon D200 - its sensor is noisy and a little "primitive" by comparison with today's offerings.
BTW with an M8 I think I would be inclined to prefer buying from a reputabel store with a solid reurns policy. Some cameras do have issues and its necessary to have a fallback. You pay a bit more up front maybe but in this case I think tis worth it. Buying on line is a gamble unless you have absolute faith in the seller and in the quality fo the merchandise.
rivercityrocker
Well-known
I whole-heartedly agree with that. Many people recommend the Fuji X's as a cheap "alternative" to a Leica, but truth be told they are nothing like a rangefinder. I've owned two Fuji XPro-1's and wasn't never satisfied. They look like Leica's but they don't act like a Leica. The sensor isn't as new and fancy as a Fuji, but it's not awful. I'd buy an M8 over any Fuji in a minute.
I picked up a used M8 about 9 months ago and it was a great decision. It made photography fun again. Most of these cameras are pretty well taken care of. I wouldn't worry about it breaking too much. It's a lot of money, but in the end it's worth it.
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
Perhaps there is an RFF member traveling to France who could hand-carry it. A used camera won't have any customs duties and then it could be posted to your location. I'm not saying this to further pitch my friend's camera but it could also work if there are any other great deals on M8s here on the forum.
Phil Forrest
E__WOK
Well-known
Fraser
Well-known
As much as I liked the M8 they are a lot of money secondhand, unless I had a lot of M lenses I would go for a Fuji, I had an x100 while my M9 was being repaired by Leica and the only reason I sold it was I reckoned I would not use the M9 enough when it got back from repair. I'm just back from holiday weekend and all I took with me was a Canon 5d classic that I picked up last week for £350 and I didn't really miss the M9. The price of the 5d and my Canon 50mm 1.2 is about the same as a secondhand M8.
scatteredpixelphoto
Newbie
I was facing the dilemma of whether to buy an X-Pro 1 or an M8 on a limited budget not long ago. Though the M8 was at least double the price for the XP1, I chose the M8 mostly because I had a number of wide M mount lenses that were known to show smearing when used the with the Fuji. Plus the M8 is very well made.
So far, I'm very happy with the decision.
So far, I'm very happy with the decision.
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
But who does already have a lot of Fuji lenses stashed away, without owning a body? All answers so far seem to forget the more significant part of the system cost, namely lenses! Which would make up at least half the cost of a basic (body, wide, normal and long) M8 kit, even if you go the route of cheap third party lenses, and far more, if you buy contemporary Leica originals. Roughly the same goes for the Fuji original lenses - but it would permit adapting even cheaper SLR primes.
If a rangefinder is what the OP is after (and his "pauper" is real, as in "not able to afford any car" rather than "must cancel one of my golf club memberships"), film might be his only real choice - a film M kit could be set up at less than 1/3 the cost of the cheapest possible M8 kit, as the focal lengths needed don't stray anywhere as much into the (expensive) wide territory as with the (crop) M8.
Lss
Well-known
I would not hesitate buying an M8 today if I didn't have one. While I would like having one the newer M bodies, they are still considerably more expensive. For me the only significant difference based on specifications and samples is anyway the crop factor.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
The M8 is not a camera to extend yourself financially to own. If something major goes wrong with it you'll likely own a paper weight!
Just my opinon of course.
Just my opinon of course.
Fraser
Well-known
I would have to agree and if you get one I would make sure its got at least 6 months warranty. I've had a dozen Canon DSLRs an M8 and M9 both the Ms have been back to Leica for warranty repairs none of the Canons have, the Canons have all been used for press work the Leicas only occasionally mostly for weekend stuff. Don't get me wrong I think Leica M digitals are great but for the price of secondhand M8 (£1400 in the UK) there is a lot out there.
Only my opinion
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
Not being able to easily change the ISO on an M8 with a dead LCD sounds like a fat finger in my cake...
The Fuji is nothing like a Leica and the Ricoh GXR-M in't either, but Ricoh takes the prize IMHO, so glad I own that little camera and got rid of my M8 after only a few months...
Have a look in the Gear Articles on my site to see how you can set the GXR-M up as a little B&W machine (piccolo Monochrom) and it might change your mind...
Good light!
The Fuji is nothing like a Leica and the Ricoh GXR-M in't either, but Ricoh takes the prize IMHO, so glad I own that little camera and got rid of my M8 after only a few months...
Have a look in the Gear Articles on my site to see how you can set the GXR-M up as a little B&W machine (piccolo Monochrom
) and it might change your mind...Good light!
There's truth to this... if you want a mechanical RF, or the elegance of a Leica, the Fujis will not scratch that itch. However, outside of that, they are rangefinder shaped and that is enough for many people who are not fans of DSLR shaped bodies.
hepcat
Former PH, USN
Many folks (me, included) buy (or bought) the X-Pro1 for the form factor hoping that would be sufficient to "scratch that itch." The truth is that they are very different cameras, each with its own set of competencies and issues. If you truly want a coupled coincident rangefinder viewfinder, then the M8 (even with its potential issues) is your choice. Buy the best one you can find at a price point you can afford.
If you really don't care how you see through and focus the camera, and are willing to give some control over to the camera, then the Fuji outfit can be a lot less money and has the potential to take beautiful photographs. The Fuji, however, is not without its own set of significant issues to be learned, worked around, and overcome. For me, the utility of the RF/VFs of the Leicas outweigh the potential of repairs. For me,tThe issues with the Fuji outweighed the utility of the part-time OVF. That the form factor of the Fuji was pleasant was the only thing that kept me with it as long as I was. I just couldn't get it to work for me with my approach to shooting. There are a lot of used X-Pro1s around that are pretty darned cheap these days.
doolittle
Well-known
If you want to recreate your experience of your M6, by acquiring an M8, I would advise caution or consider getting an M6 (or M4) instead. The M8 is a different kind of experience, it's close, but not the same. If you do get an M8, give yourself some time to get acquainted to it.
In my opinion it still remains a relevant camera capable of producing great images, with a satisfying work flow.
Factor in a fresh Leica branded battery and a suitable SD Card. UV/IR filters for your lenses for colour photography.
On a budget I would go for the M8, as the M8.2 usually carries a significant premium in price.
Do you already have any M or LTM mount lenses?
In my opinion it still remains a relevant camera capable of producing great images, with a satisfying work flow.
Factor in a fresh Leica branded battery and a suitable SD Card. UV/IR filters for your lenses for colour photography.
On a budget I would go for the M8, as the M8.2 usually carries a significant premium in price.
Do you already have any M or LTM mount lenses?