Buying an M2 and what about the rapid load kit?

[Frank Petronio]

I think I want to get a M2, having been fairly successful at using my internal exposure meter with my LTM camera. I've had several M6s and a long time ago I had a beater M2 but it is a fuzzy memory.

My concerns about buying an M2 are:

1. Is that rapid load kit readily available and what should it cost installed? And in use is it "almost" as good as an M6 load or what should I expect? I just don't want to have to remove spools if I can avoid it.

2. I want the M2 because I am a 40mm shooter and I hate the extra framelines in the later cameras. So compared to the M6 0.72 bodies, are the 35mm framelines going to work better or worse (for mostly closer work) with a 40mm?

3. The big fear I have is the balsam cement separation in the VF -- I want the best viewfinder possible -- what should I be looking for? What is the story about the cement becoming brittle so any sharp jolt will break the VF?

Otherwise I think I know what else to look for -- over a Million serial number (or closer to 900,000 than 800,000!), metal pressure plate, all the usual caveats about curtains and winding on, etc.

Figuring I'd want to buy a body with a recent CLA or send it right off for a CLA, what would you buy? A $450 beater that definitely needs work or nicer $650 that may or may not need a lot of work?

By the time I add a CLA and a rapid load kit to a user M2 body, I might be in the same range as a decent M6 again. How expensive and how well does it work to have those nasty extra frame lines removed from an M6? Or is the M2 VF that much nicer that I shouldn't be comparing them?

Thanks!

 

[ampguy]

Sounds like what you really want is an early M6 ('86 - ish), with MP finder upgrade. Hard to imagine lucking out with an M2 in great condition, with MP like finder, and rapid wind at same price point of an early M6 with MP upgrade.

Just don't use the meter in the M6 if not needed.

 

[historicist]

Or an M4? My impression (which could be totally wrong) was that the M2 rapidloads were a bit collectable and hence expensive.

 

[Roger Hicks]

The rapid load kit -- if you can find one -- is quick and easy to install yourself, except for the sticker showing how to load, which loses its stickiness. Both my M2s have them. They're not as easy to use as the later 3-prong variety, but in my view thay are an improvement on the standard loading (others don't all agree).

Balsam separation is (like most things on the internet) far less of a risk than many people would have you believe. In almost 40 years of using Leicas, with lots of Leica-using friends, I've seen ONE finder totally screwed up by it.

Personally I'd go for having the unwanted frames removed from an M6 (or even M4/M4P) as it'll be a newer camera with self-resetting film counter. But then, I think the MP is the best compromise Leica has ever made...

Tasho delek,

R.

 

[maddoc]

Get an M3, stick some tape on the frame-line illumination window and you get a perfect VF for a 40mm lens without any disturbing frame-lines since the complete VF of the M3 (0.91x) covers quite good the FoV of a 40mm lens.

I had the rapid-load kit installed in my last M3 and it was more hassle to load a film than without that kit. You have to pull out the load spool every time, adjust it for correct orientation and re-insert it, works similar to the M5-type loading.

De-cementing of the prisms can happen to all of the older M Leicas. If it has started already, one hard bump might be sufficient to totally separate the prisms.

 

[payasam]

The Bessa R3, which has 40mm frame lines, might be considered. Not a Leica, but a good camera by all accounts. It has a meter and is newer than the M2.

 

[pagpow]

Get an M3, stick some tape on the frame-line illumination window and you get a perfect VF for a 40mm lens without any disturbing frame-lines since the complete VF of the M3 (0.91x) covers quite good the FoV of a 40mm lens.

My suggestion also. I had an M3 and bought an M2 for a 35mm lens, only to end up buying the VC 40/1.4 and finding I could just use the whole M3 VF, unless you NEED a .72VF.

 

[drewbarb]

The rapid loader kit won't make your M2 load like an M6, exactly. If your LTM is a bottom loader, you'll find the M2's regular loading pretty easy- I wouldn't bother with the kit. Spend the money on a spare spool or two, and keep 'em pre-loaded in your bag.

 

[Roger Hicks]

You have to pull out the load spool every time, adjust it for correct orientation and re-insert it, works similar to the M5-type loading.

On an M3, yes. With an M2 (manual counter reset) you don't have to pull it out and you can just use the wind-on to orient it correctly.

Tashi delek,

R.

 

[efkbl]

My suggestion also. I had an M3 and bought an M2 for a 35mm lens, only to end up buying the VC 40/1.4 and finding I could just use the whole M3 VF, unless you NEED a .72VF.

With a M3 you won't have parallax correction, and as the OP mentions shooting mostly at close range, it may be a problem.

 

[maddoc]

On an M3, yes. With an M2 (manual counter reset) you don't have to pull it out and you can just use the wind-on to orient it correctly.

Tashi delek,

R.

Good tip, Roger ! I just have the habit to load film into my Ms, while the R-lever is still in rewind position to freely align the sprocket wheel with the film while loading. If winding on, the R-lever jumps back and the sprocket wheel gets clutched in.

 

[mr_phillip]

Looks like you've got a bunch of useful responses, but here's my 2¢ anyway.

1. The Rapid Load kit shouldn't be expensive and is a quick and easy self install. However, I don't like it at all. I'm one of the folks Roger alluded to who much prefer the standard take-up spool. Just get a spare one and have it pre-attached to your film. Then changing films becomes a simple pull-out-the-old and slot-in-the-new process. If I felt I really couldn't live with the standard spools I'd either look for an M2-R instead, or just have a tulip-style take up spool fitted (ideally at the same time as having the camera serviced).

2. The 35mm lines in the M2 are going to be a less suitable match to your 40mm than those in an M6, for the simple reason that they're a much better match to the actual field of view of a 35mm lens (the M6's lines are actually closer to 40mm than they are to 35mm).

3. Don't sweat it. Balsam separation is much less common in M2s than in M3s, and is generally less of an issue than chatter on the Internet would have you believe. Plus it'd be visible on inspection if it was bad enough to pose any kind of serious problem.

Personally, my preference was to find a decent M2 that needed some minor work, and then get it serviced myself, rather than to try to save a few pennies by buying one that's been CLAed by whoever. That way I got to make the call on who did the work, exactly what got done, and I knew that the work was covered by valid warranty.

As to the issue of buying and servicing an M2 over an M6, well that's ultimately going to be your call. But as someone who uses both I'd say that the M2's rf patch is WAY more flair resistant than the M6's, although the latter's finder is maybe fractionally brighter than the M2's. And, although I haven't done it yet, I'm assured that masking out sets of framelines on the M6 is both cheap and easy to do (when mine goes in for a service the 75mm lines are going). And of course there's the option of fitting the MP upgrade to the M6 finder which should help things even further.

I'm guessing that the draw of the M2 is maybe it's mechanical solidity so what I'm about to say next might not count for much. But for 40mm shooting the Minolta CLE is a peach of a rangefinder. Just sayin'...

 

[edho]

All my M2 amd M3 have the quick load kits. I found it helpful when compare with the original spool, although not as good as the M6 loading mechanism. It costs around US$100 TO $120 each and is a collectible item if it comes with the original Leica paper box and installation manual. Installation will only take you 3 minutes.

 

[amateriat]

I've been using an M2 for he last month and change (came with a v1 35 f/2 Summicron), and like it "lots." The uncluttered VF is a pleasure, my particular example's stripped-down elegance (mine being a fairly early-production model, there's no self-timer lever to impede my grip) makes working with it that much smoother and intuitive. I've even got the hang of film loading with the standard setup, and won't bother with the Rapid Load mod. Can't say I'm missing anything from later Leicas so far.


- Barrett

 

[photobizzz]

I have owned a M3, M6 TTL, and M2 in that order and do prefer the M2 over the others. Mostly due to the uncluttered VF. I picked up a cherry M2 with some extras thrown in for $600 on eBay, only a few bright marks; otherwise sweet. It had been owned by a nice older doctor and he exercised the shutter several times a year, otherwise it has been sitting since it was serviced at the Leica factory in 1977, he even sent the original receipt. The good deals are out there, just takes a bit to find one.

As for loading...I can load mine in 15-20 seconds without the QL kit, which is plenty fast for me. I guess having a spare spool would knock 5 seconds off, but really....what is 5 seconds. If "that" elusive shot is missed due to 5 seconds, oh well. That is just my personal thoughts though, others may feel more rushed, I try to be just the opposite with my photography, I actually enjoy loading it 😉

 

[Svitantti]

I can recommend the M4. Best Leica I have owned and the best in my opinion (simpler finder, no flare like M4-P or M6, quicker loading than earlier ones, easier rewind).

M4-P would be also a cheap option, as of course M4-2.

I am thinking about M2, as it is the cheapest with 35mm frameline. I guess the loading and rewinding dont have to be that quick usually.

 

[b.espahbod]

I never had M4 but i guess it will do great for what you want, M6 without batteries is my favourite 😀